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> the warehouse worker is neither seen nor heard by the customer; at least at Walmart, you go to a store and you see the workers — you know they exist. This ma

> the warehouse worker is neither seen nor heard by the customer; at least at Walmart, you go to a store and you see the workers — you know they exist. This made me think of the movie 'The Island' where in one scene, somewhere in the beginning of the movie, they show us the work our protagonists do in their community. There are tubes coming out of the wall on one side of the room and out the other; tubes which have a flowing liquid inside which the protagonists and their friends are trained to perform an action on, which is essential for some kind of process. Only later do we find out the awful purpose of these tubes. There is an increasing level of alienation that is hard to describe to anyone who has been lucky enough to be a labor aristocrat for most of their lives. I honestly think everyone around us is capable of so much more. Our current system, through Intellectual Property types such as copyrights and trade secrets, has made it hard to ascend 'intellectual ladders' because the intellectual ladders used by those in power have kicked them away (after they were used by them). In other words: there is a lack of diversity of methods and approaches and opportunities due to the commodification and privatization of knowledge (i.e. technology and science overall). [1],[2] I believe the human needs for growth and play are foundational to a happy society, and in modern society, those needs go massively unmet, and the working class is being squeezed and squeezed like never before (not to mention the workers in the global south who I would argue are exploited to an even greater extent [3]). It's also ironic that Amazon calls their production facilities 'Fulfillment Centers', because the most important people they do not create 'fulfillment' for are their workers... you know, the people who are actually creating all the value: > If class is a social relation and the working class is made and remade daily, that formation is increasingly happening inside the massive structures that house Amazon’s warehouses, where workers face capital embodied in the whir of machinery and barking managers and the beeps of the scanner in their hands, prodding them to pick up the pace. It is happening in the parking lots outside, where people smoke and linger and chat and dread. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25753856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25753856 [2] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley [3] https://anti-imperialism.org/2012/09/18/understanding-and-changing-an-interview-with-zak-cope-author-of-divided-world-divided-class/ https://anti-imperialism.org/2012/09/18/understanding-and-ch...

aww_dang 5y ago
Even if we were to accept class theory, in the 21st century nearly everyone has access to a computer, one of the most productive goods. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27903630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27903630
- beckman466 5y ago
  > Even if we were to accept class theory, in the 21st century nearly everyone has access to a computer, one of the most productive goods. You sure that's all that's needed? I am continually surprised when someone claims the internet is some all-mighty resource-rich network. It wasn't the internet that made world class scientists, it was access to privileged firewalled networks: capitalist universities, as well as state-funded yet privately controlled multinationals (more and more through trade secret law [1]), which 'own' and house - read: hoard and violently withhold - the sum total of all human knowledge (commons which belongs to all of earth's children, not just ones with rich mommies and daddies). When someone like Aaron Swartz is driven to his death for campaigning for open access, it shows that he has come upon something that wants to stay hidden: the structures and dynamics of outdated knowledge hierarchies. Have you read his short and concise manifesto? It's an awesome (and better) articulation of what I am talking about here. [2] That story about the Indian man is not empirical data, it's an example of an anecdotal story that helps to keep the working class distracted, stopping them from seeing how the system actually works. Stories like that are 'magical voluntarist' fantasies that end up alienating more people than they inspire. [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26805062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26805062 [2] https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj... [3] http://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841 http://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    I can agree with that sentiment up to a point. We're still better off now than before. Information is more generally available. If you want to publish online or create software, nearly every resource is available. The Internet is its own paradigm of value. There are still specialized fields guarded by academic gatekeepers. However even there, knowledge is more widely available than before. Hypothetically speaking, if a researcher progressed to a high level in a traditionally academic field, the term "world class scientist" is a bit loaded. The rank of "world class" would most likely be determined by academic or other large institutions. If he acquired the knowledge without the receipts from an institution, he could easily be excluded. Therefore the gatekeeping to achieve this status is not strictly one of knowledge acquisition. It becomes a bit self-referential. >That story about the Nepali is not empirical data. It's an anecdotal story that keeps the working class distracted, and stops them from seeing how the system... I disagree strongly. It is that kind of can't do attitude that stops people from even starting. "How can I ever succeed, when the deck is stacked against me? The world is unfair, therefore I shouldn't even bother to try. Better to go back to wage based employment. I blame the system!" If that's the view you take, you'll never manifest success outside of the institutional paradigms you observe. No, the world isn't fair. The world has never been fair. Some will always have an advantage. That doesn't mean that Internet doesn't provide amazing opportunities for those who are willing. If you want different results, it stands to reason that you'll have to do something different. It is possible to escape day to day drudgery if you are willing, motivated and prepared to fail repeatedly.

aww_dang 5y ago

Even if we were to accept class theory, in the 21st century nearly everyone has access to a computer, one of the most productive goods. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27903630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27903630

beckman466 5y ago
> Even if we were to accept class theory, in the 21st century nearly everyone has access to a computer, one of the most productive goods. You sure that's all that's needed? I am continually surprised when someone claims the internet is some all-mighty resource-rich network. It wasn't the internet that made world class scientists, it was access to privileged firewalled networks: capitalist universities, as well as state-funded yet privately controlled multinationals (more and more through trade secret law [1]), which 'own' and house - read: hoard and violently withhold - the sum total of all human knowledge (commons which belongs to all of earth's children, not just ones with rich mommies and daddies). When someone like Aaron Swartz is driven to his death for campaigning for open access, it shows that he has come upon something that wants to stay hidden: the structures and dynamics of outdated knowledge hierarchies. Have you read his short and concise manifesto? It's an awesome (and better) articulation of what I am talking about here. [2] That story about the Indian man is not empirical data, it's an example of an anecdotal story that helps to keep the working class distracted, stopping them from seeing how the system actually works. Stories like that are 'magical voluntarist' fantasies that end up alienating more people than they inspire. [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26805062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26805062 [2] https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj... [3] http://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841 http://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841
- aww_dang 5y ago
  I can agree with that sentiment up to a point. We're still better off now than before. Information is more generally available. If you want to publish online or create software, nearly every resource is available. The Internet is its own paradigm of value. There are still specialized fields guarded by academic gatekeepers. However even there, knowledge is more widely available than before. Hypothetically speaking, if a researcher progressed to a high level in a traditionally academic field, the term "world class scientist" is a bit loaded. The rank of "world class" would most likely be determined by academic or other large institutions. If he acquired the knowledge without the receipts from an institution, he could easily be excluded. Therefore the gatekeeping to achieve this status is not strictly one of knowledge acquisition. It becomes a bit self-referential. >That story about the Nepali is not empirical data. It's an anecdotal story that keeps the working class distracted, and stops them from seeing how the system... I disagree strongly. It is that kind of can't do attitude that stops people from even starting. "How can I ever succeed, when the deck is stacked against me? The world is unfair, therefore I shouldn't even bother to try. Better to go back to wage based employment. I blame the system!" If that's the view you take, you'll never manifest success outside of the institutional paradigms you observe. No, the world isn't fair. The world has never been fair. Some will always have an advantage. That doesn't mean that Internet doesn't provide amazing opportunities for those who are willing. If you want different results, it stands to reason that you'll have to do something different. It is possible to escape day to day drudgery if you are willing, motivated and prepared to fail repeatedly.