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One of those "once you see it" articles. It's a good example of art imitating art. On screen depictions of ER doctors zapping patients back to life with a def
by dalbasal 5y ago
One of those "once you see it" articles.
It's a good example of art imitating art. On screen depictions of ER doctors zapping patients back to life with a defibrillator. Adrenaline shots to the heart. Gently putting bad guys to sleep with a concussive blow to the head.
Artists' dramatic depictions become cliche, and cliche becomes our norm. Good to stop and ponder, on occasion, how much of our worldview is shaped by such fallacies.
- yourenotsmart 5y agoThis probably disproves the hypothesis that consciousness shapes reality, because if it did, the millions of brainwashed people watching movies would have turned the reality into a set of movie tropes.
- TazeTSchnitzel 5y agoWhy can't they have subtle impacts?
- yourenotsmart 5y agoSubtle impact is always a given as people affecting their own understanding affects their actions, and their actions shape the reality around them.
- beebeepka 5y agoNot sure I understand what you're trying to say here. Do you agree people are influenced by movies or not? I think we all immitate and there's very little, if any, truly original... thoughts/behaviours
- sethammons 5y agoI take their meaning as a poke at those who believe that "if you will it, it will be." There were some who believe(d) if you gathered a stadium of people and told them all to think about the candle in the center of the stadium self-igniting that through the power of shared belief it would. If this were true, then, to op's point, a bunch of reality would be changing to match people's mental expectations as influenced through media tropes. And since we don't see that, then people's thoughts likely don't influence reality.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- TazeTSchnitzel 5y agoThere's all sorts of interesting and sometimes subtle negative impacts on the real world that inaccurate depictions in fiction have. I think these mainly happen for situations people are likely to only see in fiction rather than reality. A mundane example is people turning up to court and behaving incorrectly because they're used to Hollywood depictions. Another one is people thinking someone using a command-line on a computer must be “hacking”. More troublesome is dramatically unrealistic depictions of minorities.
- dalbasal 5y agoSure. Also, porn, romance novels, high school social life, prison, mafia, war, psychotherapy... The world is full of examples where literary cliches have more influence on our biases and expectations than first or second hand experiences. We rarely observe other people falling in love, but we see it in movies and stories all the time. Hence why this article is subtly brilliant. It reminds us how much of our "knowledge" is actually fiction.
- dmix 5y agoA big one is 30+ year olds writing the screenplays and therefore dialogue of kids and teenagers which are always precocious and seem adult like. Which young people think they should be at a similar stage of development or imitate them.
- ambicapter 5y agoOr they think that what they're saying and thinking will come out similar to how it came out on the tv show...
- bsder 5y agoI find the whole 25 year old playing a 15 year old more problematic. Especially for girls, this gives a tremendously powerful incorrect body image signal. However, even for guys, it's starting to get ridiculous--the actors always have their shirt off, are completely cut and have <5% bodyfat. The only boys who look like that at 15 are short, currently miserable as hell and cutting weight for a tournament (and probably on steroids, to boot).
- dTal 5y agoI'm slowly coming to the highly unpopular view that all fiction is essentially a lie, and therefore damaging. Your brain does not distinguish meaningfully between truth and fiction, at an emotional level. Yes, you can tell stories that capture some sort of essential truth - but writers don't typically hold themselves terribly closely to that standard, and in any case the time is better spent telling of things that actually happened. Every mutilation applied to actual events - in the service of making them supposedly more entertaining - clouds our understanding of them. And it's done on purpose! Inglourious Basterds is an abomination, a deliberate cognitohazard.
- dalbasal 5y agoWell... If you also come around to the view that most nonfiction is fiction too... you might find yourself in a pretty nihilistic place. Those depictions of butterflies are intended to be nonfiction.. naturalism. A precise and true representation of butterflies, an artistic culture that people like Darwin were steeped in.
- pixl97 5y agoI was going to reply something similar. We dont have access to much thermodynamic truth and the vast majority of our experience is fictionalised in one way or another when it is later described.
- eru 5y agoThat's a good reason why archaeologists are so keen on digging in garbage. Garbage doesn't lie as much as the written word. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden
- dalbasal 5y agoThe garbage itself may not lie, but the process of turning garbage into history is still storytelling. It's very hard to escape. Most anything meaningful, to us, is a story. A fully empirical/popperian approach to knowledge isn't workable. Or rather, it's extremely sparse. You have to accept that you know almost nothing.
- b0rsuk 5y agoI like the phrase "art imitating art", but it's broader than that. For example people with no interest in antique, Greece or Sparta are fans of Spartans. In reality, Sparta was a North Korea of the antique world, AND it had profoundly average combat performance. No matter how you slice it, they were completely average as far as won battles go! https://acoup.blog/2019/09/20/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-vi-spartan-battle/ https://acoup.blog/2019/09/20/collections-this-isnt-sparta-p... If you filter out naval battles, it doesn't change anything. If you remove battles where they fought in a coalition with other Greeks, their win rate even drops slightly. There is some evidence they may have had a slight advantage in leadership, because they had more leaders and their units were a bit smaller so they could perhaps operate more independently and seize opportunities on a field of battle (a strategy perfected by Romans). But overall, their strategy was bad even by antique standards - check out the Peloponesian War (with Athens). Spartans just had a good PR. Dead butterflies is a meme (in the old meaning of viral idea). Spartan military excellence is a meme too.
- dalbasal 5y agoI'd say the spartan meme is also an example of art imitating art. Other greeks, and later Romans started this meme. They admired Sparta's dedication to conservative fanaticism, romanticized it and told stories about them. We still tell the stories, based on older stories based on older stories. Meanwhile, we have very little direct access to "reality." In fact, unmediated reality is pretty elusive.. when you stop to think about it. Win rate statistics and other such "objective" views into reality are a pretty sparse source of information.
- kleton 5y agoSome criticism of Acoup's analysis of their combat performance. All of the defeats listed are either not infantry battles or ones where Sparta was heavily outnumbered. It's hardly surprising that they would lose battles over 500 v 1000, and no contemporary commentators claimed that man for man they were that much better than their peer poleis. If you did a "wins above replacement" analysis for pitched infantry battles, they would come out ahead, at least until the Battle of Tegyra (375), when Boeotians had figured out an effective infantry doctrine after years fighting Sparta. Plutarch on the Theban victory over Sparta at Leuctra (371). >For in all the great wars there had ever been against Greeks or barbarians, the Spartans were never before beaten by a smaller company than their own; nor, indeed, in a set battle, when their number was equal. Hence their courage was thought irresistible, and their high repute before the battle made a conquest already of enemies, who thought themselves no match for the men of Sparta even on equal terms. That battle wiped out the Spartiate class for a generation, killing 400 out of 700. This opened the way for Thebes to liberate Messenia in 370, which was the majority of the Lakonian helots, and it was all downhill for Sparta after that.
- ronenlh 5y ago“live butterflies don’t look like butterflies in pictures, you gotta use dead ones” is like in the Simpsons: “Cow's don't look like cows on film. You gotta use horses.”
- Consultant32452 5y agoI’m not interested in a 2A debate but I find it really interesting how much public misunderstanding about firearms and firearms law comes from movies. One of the biggest is the concept of the “unregistered firearm” used in a crime. There is no firearm registry in the US, so all firearms are unregistered. However, the fact that this is prolific in crime movies leads many to believe such a registry exists. Another is the “Hollywood silencer.” Guns fired with a suppressor/silencer are still quite loud, but movies have people thinking you can have a shootout in a mall and no one will notice.
- nacs 5y ago> Guns fired with a suppressor/silencer are still quite loud A great example of this is the scene from John Wick where Wick and a villain are in a crowd firing at each other with noone noticing. There is a video with the gun sounds recreated to be more realistic: https://youtu.be/ws8LAfD_3BA?t=13 https://youtu.be/ws8LAfD_3BA?t=13
- neolog 5y agoTIL > Only those firearms subject to the National Firearms Act (NFA) (e.g., machineguns, short–barreled rifles and shotguns, silencers, destructive devices, and firearms designated as “any other weapons”) must be registered with ATF. > Firearms registration may be required by state or local law. Any person considering acquiring a firearm should contact their State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible state or local restrictions. https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-does-person-register-firearm-or-remove-name-firearms-registration https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-does-person...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Consultant32452 5y agoHere's a weird one about the NFA and "silencers." As previously mentioned, it's still pretty loud when you use one. In the US it's very restrictive to own one ($200 tax, 6+ month wait, registration, etc.) but in places like the UK it's the opposite. You're a noise polluter without one and relatively very simple to get even though in UK it's harder to get guns.
- mushbino 5y agoI just finished the book Fantasyland by Kurt Anderson. Much of our reality and especially our worldview is constructed and bears no resemblance to reality.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- r3trohack3r 5y agoI’ve always wondered how much our social interaction is defined by on-screen portrayals of social interactions. Actors are doing their best to portray how humans behave, but some subset of humans observe a large portion of what “normal” behavior is through a screen. At some point, did humans begin imitating the actors to a large degree, while the actors continued imitating the humans? In other words, did art begin imitating art? This thought was brought on by watching old movies. Either actors were much worse back then, or people behaved differently, or both. And to what degree did those actors shape today’s behavior?
- MikeSchurman 5y agoAlthough I have no evidence to back this up, I believe many try to imitate film (or expect something) in their romantic life, which ends up with them having bad expectations and disappointment.
- b0rsuk 5y agoOne of my pet grievances is how love is portrayed. If you were to believe movies, you can get ANY woman if you're persistent enough. Then poor young boys and men set out in the world showering someone else in gifts and attention. Girls with narcissistic tendencies become more, more and more narcissistic and entitled. Another very damaging myth is that kung fu will save you from muggers. Muggers may have no objections to stabbing you, and if they attack they often attack from surprise. Or really, that a fight looks anything like in a martial arts movie. Go watch a fight in a Karate or Judo championship. It's quite boring, contestants are quite evenly matched and move with respect to each other.
- MagnumOpus 5y agoHigh level karate or judo (or boxing or MMA or Muay Thai) championships are usually only tactical and boring because they are evenly matched. They would all whip a „casual“ experienced martial artist within half a minute in a movie-like fashion, who in turn will be able to do that to the man on the street. (Source: been there, done that, sparred and competed both against world class olympic martial artists as well as complete beginners.)
- DoreenMichele 5y agoI think this is actually art imitating science, but that's a quibble. As for the rest, I heartily agree. I've been thinking about that here lately, how we watch movie fights and they are typically highly choreographed and often visually beautiful forms of dance that likely have nothing at all to do with what real violence looks like. Not that I want to promote real violence, but I wonder what impact that has on human psychology and how unrealistic it makes some of our expectations when dealing with actual reality when it fails to match up to what we have fed our brains via various forms of media.
- dalbasal 5y agoFair point. However... I have an illustrates copy of "Origin of Species," with Darwin's original drawings. It's quite beautiful. Naturalists of the day used a style of drawing. It was utilitarian, good for identification purposes. But, it's almost impossible not to see it as an artistic tradition too. Point taken though. This style originates in science, and they had reasons for their style.
- sneak 5y agoIn movies, the phone would revert immediately back to a dial tone when the other party hung up. That's not how any phones ever worked even back when they used dial tones.
- cratermoon 5y agoHackers typing out ... well, anything. Or the worst of all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU
- geoduck14 5y agoLolol. I was hoping for NCSI's "we must hack faster... TWO people on the same keyboard"
- cratermoon 5y agoIt's a UNIX system! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFUlAQZB9Ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFUlAQZB9Ng