5 ms·

Framework Laptop gets 10/10, fully replaceable

66 points by AbuAssar 5y ago

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
I understand the founders are pretty active here, I will ask a question: From the reviews the Framework display is pretty reflective/shinny, will you consider adding an option for a matte display that would be easier to use in moderate sunlight/outside? I wish you guys all the success and I hope the industry takes note of what tech should look like.
- nrp 5y ago
  The display is easy to replace, but we don't currently have plans for alternate versions.
eurasiantiger 5y ago
Remember, when something is too good to be true, it isn’t true, at least not in its entirety.
anshumankmr 5y ago
There was a video on YouTube I watched years ago about how enthusiast brands will always betray its core user base. It was talking about One Plus and Essential. But I believe it applies to businesses in general. How will a company like this become mainstream? I hope something like this succeeds in the long-term but the way I see it most people don't want the hassle of worrying about how to repair their laptop or phone. This also stifles any major efforts taken towards the right to repair.
- detaro 5y ago
  Is that the right question? Does a company have to become mainstream?
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    Okay. But if it wants to continue to serve it existing customer base, it will need to make money. It will need to incentivize people to work for it which will need a lot of money too. Plus it will need to keep up with R&D needed to make laptops (though nowadays laptops are not jumping forward in terms of technology except for increase in processing power and storage). People in other countries may also want to buy it, so to expand to other countries need money. Then there are factors like customer service,considering the fact most people wouldn’t know how to repair their devices. They would need to offer their own repair centers and call centers. This would be a significant investment too.
    - toper-centage 5y ago
      Another way to make money without having to detray customers is to... Ask for money. One Plus positioned itself as a cheap flagship killer by having paper thin margins and no marketing, and the moves to just make expensive phones like anyone else. Framework is not cheap and you get what you pay for.
      - anshumankmr 5y ago
        Essential tried the same thing by trying to be a new flagship phone in an already overcrowded market place of Android phones.
- sharikone 5y ago
  It's a rather common pattern in politics, that the people who you need in order to rise are not the same who you need in order to stay. But yours is just a negative attitude. Framework could or could not betray its base, they could or could not fail and they could or could not be followed by other manufacturers. In the meantime enjoy, if you want a fully serviceable laptop you have at least one option
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    Welll, technically, in my country, India, the right to repair sort of already exists. I have gotten my devices repaired by third party vendors many times if my device was not under warranty.
AbuAssar 5y ago
It also comes with 6 different port options, that you can mix and match! (USB-A / USB-C x 2 / HDMI / DisplayPort / MicroSD) imagine extending your laptop and customizing it, without using any external dongles and hubs!
- websites2023 5y ago
  Except that the ports are essentially custom dongles that lock into the case. So instead of relying on the full market to make a usb-c to whatever dongle in the future, you’re relying on Framework to do it. A single company. This is not better.
  - gorjusborg 5y ago
    As long as the specs for the mechanical port are stable, which there is incentive for as users would be angry if they had to rebuy, it is better. Third party companies could make compatible parts. I look at this laptop as a proof of concept for something we should all want to exist: a modular and repairable laptop. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't make it bad.
    - websites2023 5y ago
      There’s a better chance that someone will release the design for people to 3D print their own.
      - cge 5y ago
        It appears the company is pretty serious about trying to create an open market for the expansion cards. They have CC-BY licensed reference designs of the expansions cards (https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards), and employees are in the forums answering questions and giving pretty forthright design advice (eg, https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-mockup/2325 https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-moc...). It also appears that they're giving funding to people developing them (eg, https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expansion-card/2487 https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expans...). I was enormously skeptical when I first heard about the company, as the history of computing is littered with the devices and prototypes of startups that suggested they were going to make something different and open and extensible, only to have those promises be completely overblown, and usually have communication become shady and vague. But while I'm not quite confident enough to buy one yet, and I'll be very interested to see how their ecosystem evolves over the next few months, it actually looks like they might be succeeding here.
bsd44 5y ago
It gets 10/10 for being replaceable. That's it. I have a Lenovo Thinkbook 13s that has slotted RAM and same spec as Framework's lowest model and it cost me £600 three years ago, this one costs $1000 (or £750) without tax. Seems a bit expensive because realistically all I would ever need to upgrade is memory. (I'd be careful upgrading the mobo/cpu/gpu without the ability to provide quality thermals to support the upgraded components.) I intentionally seeked out a laptop with upgradeable RAM because I was "sick and tired of everything being soldered on bla bla bla" but honestly I will likely buy a new laptop before I decide to upgrade this one. There's nothing wrong with it technically, it's just that tech doesn't age well. I used to cry for solutions like a Framework Laptop, but then I realised I don't really need a modular laptop, I just liked the idea of having one and the freedom of choice that comes with it.
- AbuAssar 5y ago
  refer to @cge comment below, looks like the company is pushing for an open market for the expansion cards.
  - ChrisArchitect 5y ago
    comment referred to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27950388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27950388
- mrtweetyhack 5y ago
  I don't know about Lenovo, but on other laptops, I've upgraded hard drives, memory; even the wifi can be removed. This Framework Laptop does not impress.
villgax 5y ago
This pretty neat!
Rebelgecko 5y ago
Are they actually selling replacement parts? I couldn't find any listed on their website.

66 points by AbuAssar 5y ago

I understand the founders are pretty active here, I will ask a question: From the reviews the Framework display is pretty reflective/shinny, will you consider adding an option for a matte display that would be easier to use in moderate sunlight/outside? I wish you guys all the success and I hope the industry takes note of what tech should look like.

nrp 5y ago
The display is easy to replace, but we don't currently have plans for alternate versions.

eurasiantiger 5y ago

Remember, when something is too good to be true, it isn’t true, at least not in its entirety.

anshumankmr 5y ago

There was a video on YouTube I watched years ago about how enthusiast brands will always betray its core user base. It was talking about One Plus and Essential. But I believe it applies to businesses in general. How will a company like this become mainstream? I hope something like this succeeds in the long-term but the way I see it most people don't want the hassle of worrying about how to repair their laptop or phone. This also stifles any major efforts taken towards the right to repair.

detaro 5y ago
Is that the right question? Does a company have to become mainstream?
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  Okay. But if it wants to continue to serve it existing customer base, it will need to make money. It will need to incentivize people to work for it which will need a lot of money too. Plus it will need to keep up with R&D needed to make laptops (though nowadays laptops are not jumping forward in terms of technology except for increase in processing power and storage). People in other countries may also want to buy it, so to expand to other countries need money. Then there are factors like customer service,considering the fact most people wouldn’t know how to repair their devices. They would need to offer their own repair centers and call centers. This would be a significant investment too.
  - toper-centage 5y ago
    Another way to make money without having to detray customers is to... Ask for money. One Plus positioned itself as a cheap flagship killer by having paper thin margins and no marketing, and the moves to just make expensive phones like anyone else. Framework is not cheap and you get what you pay for.
    - anshumankmr 5y ago
      Essential tried the same thing by trying to be a new flagship phone in an already overcrowded market place of Android phones.
sharikone 5y ago
It's a rather common pattern in politics, that the people who you need in order to rise are not the same who you need in order to stay. But yours is just a negative attitude. Framework could or could not betray its base, they could or could not fail and they could or could not be followed by other manufacturers. In the meantime enjoy, if you want a fully serviceable laptop you have at least one option
- anshumankmr 5y ago
  Welll, technically, in my country, India, the right to repair sort of already exists. I have gotten my devices repaired by third party vendors many times if my device was not under warranty.

AbuAssar 5y ago

It also comes with 6 different port options, that you can mix and match! (USB-A / USB-C x 2 / HDMI / DisplayPort / MicroSD) imagine extending your laptop and customizing it, without using any external dongles and hubs!

websites2023 5y ago
Except that the ports are essentially custom dongles that lock into the case. So instead of relying on the full market to make a usb-c to whatever dongle in the future, you’re relying on Framework to do it. A single company. This is not better.
- gorjusborg 5y ago
  As long as the specs for the mechanical port are stable, which there is incentive for as users would be angry if they had to rebuy, it is better. Third party companies could make compatible parts. I look at this laptop as a proof of concept for something we should all want to exist: a modular and repairable laptop. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't make it bad.
  - websites2023 5y ago
    There’s a better chance that someone will release the design for people to 3D print their own.
    - cge 5y ago
      It appears the company is pretty serious about trying to create an open market for the expansion cards. They have CC-BY licensed reference designs of the expansions cards (https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards), and employees are in the forums answering questions and giving pretty forthright design advice (eg, https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-mockup/2325 https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-moc...). It also appears that they're giving funding to people developing them (eg, https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expansion-card/2487 https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expans...). I was enormously skeptical when I first heard about the company, as the history of computing is littered with the devices and prototypes of startups that suggested they were going to make something different and open and extensible, only to have those promises be completely overblown, and usually have communication become shady and vague. But while I'm not quite confident enough to buy one yet, and I'll be very interested to see how their ecosystem evolves over the next few months, it actually looks like they might be succeeding here.

bsd44 5y ago

It gets 10/10 for being replaceable. That's it. I have a Lenovo Thinkbook 13s that has slotted RAM and same spec as Framework's lowest model and it cost me £600 three years ago, this one costs $1000 (or £750) without tax. Seems a bit expensive because realistically all I would ever need to upgrade is memory. (I'd be careful upgrading the mobo/cpu/gpu without the ability to provide quality thermals to support the upgraded components.) I intentionally seeked out a laptop with upgradeable RAM because I was "sick and tired of everything being soldered on bla bla bla" but honestly I will likely buy a new laptop before I decide to upgrade this one. There's nothing wrong with it technically, it's just that tech doesn't age well. I used to cry for solutions like a Framework Laptop, but then I realised I don't really need a modular laptop, I just liked the idea of having one and the freedom of choice that comes with it.

AbuAssar 5y ago
refer to @cge comment below, looks like the company is pushing for an open market for the expansion cards.
- ChrisArchitect 5y ago
  comment referred to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27950388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27950388
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
I don't know about Lenovo, but on other laptops, I've upgraded hard drives, memory; even the wifi can be removed. This Framework Laptop does not impress.

villgax 5y ago

This pretty neat!

Rebelgecko 5y ago

Are they actually selling replacement parts? I couldn't find any listed on their website.