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As an Istanbul citizen, my personal impression is that there is a much more pragmatic reason. Istanbul still sees decent construction activity both downtown (w

by plq 5y ago

As an Istanbul citizen, my personal impression is that there is a much more pragmatic reason. Istanbul still sees decent construction activity both downtown (where old buildings are torn down and replaced with taller ones) and in the suburbs (the city got so big that we inadvertently say "I'm going to Istanbul" when we really mean the city centre). So in theory, as the construction teams dig not only a wider area but also deeper, they should discover more and more historical artifacts, right?.. In Turkey, law says you can own the land but not any natural resources found underneath. So if word gets out that you've stumbled upon oil, stuff of archeological importance, gold etc. etc. while digging to lay foundations, your construction project is halted until the authorities decide what to do with your discovery. You may even be forced to sell your property back for its fair market value (ie. you get a decent offer but you can't refuse it -- you can just sue to get the offer increased) You probably see where this is going: The sytem as it is incentivizes any artifacts found during private construction activities to just vaporize. Tragic, but I don't know what could be done about this. Only stuff found on state-sponsored projects seem to see the light of day, and of those that do, only ones that are useful to politicians are made part of the daily government propaganda, so you don't really hear about others unless you make an effort. With this said, as a counterpoint maybe, they found a decent amount of stuff from non-Turkish / non-islamic periods during the recent boring operations for the newest subway line and they should be on display somewhere.

mrighele 5y ago
I think there are a couple of reasons which work one for the other. The first is the mentality of "conquest" that a part of the population (and the ruling party) share. Those people don't see byzantine-era artifacts as part of their history (unless it is a church converted to mosque). Many part of the ancient city have been left to rot and only with the latest (opposition-linked) administration some restoration work has started. The second reason is corruption: big construction companies own a good amount of the turkish media and state sponsored projects are one way for the ruling party to thanks them for a pro-government information landscape. As such the state has little interest in blocking a construction project because some artefacts were found. As a bonus, whatever is found can be sold to smugglers
guerby 5y ago
I think most countries have laws to handle archeology on building sites, in France it's called "archeologie preventive": https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoines-architecture/patrimoines/Archeologie/L-archeologie-preventive https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoin... Then of course there is general attitude of the local population towards common goods like archeology and enforcement policies (or lack thereof).
YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
I'm Greek and the same thing you descrie happens in Greece also. People dig to lay the foundations of their new house and find ancient ruins or artifacts. They whistle innocently and pay the engineer to cover them up and say nothing because they know that if they call the authorities it will take a decade before building work can proceed because this kind of thing is nobody's priority and the red tape is like the infinite tapes of a UTM. The total value of archaeological treasures buried under the foundations of summer houses and condos must dwarf everything displayed in museums around the world. As to Istanbul - the City has stood there for two and a half thousand years. If you dig under the Byzantine ruins, you'll find even more ancient ruins, thousands of years of layers of ancient ruins, one on top of the other like a mille-feuille. Who's going to excavate all that? Especially when there's, you know, people living on top. And the same goes for all the large cities that have been inhabited since antiquity all around the world. Think Cairo, Alexandria, Rome, Naples, Plovdiv, Vukovar, Belgrade, Valencia, Damascus, Baghdad, Beijing, Nanjing, Kashgar, Delhi... phew. Here's more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_inhabited_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_in... So it's got nothing to do with "Osmanic heritage" or nationalism. It's just not a problem that can easily be solved.
JoshTriplett 5y ago
This direct quote from the article seems to avert that exact issue: > Istanbul's Byzantine basement surfeit survives in part thanks to a 1980s cultural heritage code that allows people who find something ancient on their property to keep it, without worrying that the government will seize it. > "Thanks to this new law, a lot of historical things were protected by the locals in Istanbul," Ozgumus says. "Before, they were destroying it."
- 988747 5y ago
  Keeping the artifact is one thing, your construction project being delayed for months because now team of archeologists takes over and starts looking for more artifacts is another.

by plq 5y ago

mrighele 5y ago

I think there are a couple of reasons which work one for the other. The first is the mentality of "conquest" that a part of the population (and the ruling party) share. Those people don't see byzantine-era artifacts as part of their history (unless it is a church converted to mosque). Many part of the ancient city have been left to rot and only with the latest (opposition-linked) administration some restoration work has started. The second reason is corruption: big construction companies own a good amount of the turkish media and state sponsored projects are one way for the ruling party to thanks them for a pro-government information landscape. As such the state has little interest in blocking a construction project because some artefacts were found. As a bonus, whatever is found can be sold to smugglers

guerby 5y ago

I think most countries have laws to handle archeology on building sites, in France it's called "archeologie preventive": https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoines-architecture/patrimoines/Archeologie/L-archeologie-preventive https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoin... Then of course there is general attitude of the local population towards common goods like archeology and enforcement policies (or lack thereof).

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

I'm Greek and the same thing you descrie happens in Greece also. People dig to lay the foundations of their new house and find ancient ruins or artifacts. They whistle innocently and pay the engineer to cover them up and say nothing because they know that if they call the authorities it will take a decade before building work can proceed because this kind of thing is nobody's priority and the red tape is like the infinite tapes of a UTM. The total value of archaeological treasures buried under the foundations of summer houses and condos must dwarf everything displayed in museums around the world. As to Istanbul - the City has stood there for two and a half thousand years. If you dig under the Byzantine ruins, you'll find even more ancient ruins, thousands of years of layers of ancient ruins, one on top of the other like a mille-feuille. Who's going to excavate all that? Especially when there's, you know, people living on top. And the same goes for all the large cities that have been inhabited since antiquity all around the world. Think Cairo, Alexandria, Rome, Naples, Plovdiv, Vukovar, Belgrade, Valencia, Damascus, Baghdad, Beijing, Nanjing, Kashgar, Delhi... phew. Here's more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_inhabited_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_in... So it's got nothing to do with "Osmanic heritage" or nationalism. It's just not a problem that can easily be solved.

JoshTriplett 5y ago

This direct quote from the article seems to avert that exact issue: > Istanbul's Byzantine basement surfeit survives in part thanks to a 1980s cultural heritage code that allows people who find something ancient on their property to keep it, without worrying that the government will seize it. > "Thanks to this new law, a lot of historical things were protected by the locals in Istanbul," Ozgumus says. "Before, they were destroying it."

988747 5y ago
Keeping the artifact is one thing, your construction project being delayed for months because now team of archeologists takes over and starts looking for more artifacts is another.