14 ms·

To H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks with Facebook

353 points by axiolite 5y ago

gwbas1c 5y ago
I've tapered down my usage of Facebook over the past few years. Now when I use it, it just makes me angry. Why would I spend time on a website that makes me angry? What's worse is the implied social obligation to use Facebook. My mom occasionally informs me that I've been invited to a family event through Facebook. I now just wait for a normal invitation, (mail, phone call, email,) or ignore the event. I just don't want to get sucked into Facebook just to check on party invites.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  I just tell people "I don't use Facebook anymore" and let them deal with it. It's a reverse network effect: the more people that stop using the platform, the more people will give up on it.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    When I tell people I have no social media, they can text me or email me, I always get kind of a weird look but they mostly do it. I'm sure I'm missing out on some stream-of-consciousness blather from a lot of my acquaintances, but I grew up without any of that and I don't feel that I need it now.
- nicbou 5y ago
  Delete all your posts and photos, and put a generic photo as your profile picture. It gets the message across.
otterley 5y ago
So Facebook is no longer showing all posts to people who intentionally subscribe to a page? If so, what, if anything, does “subscription” or “following” mean, then? I realize I’m showing my age here, but I remember when missing an issue of a paper “subscription” was cause for anger and resulted in an apology from the publisher (and usually a redelivered copy). But I also remember when “follow” meant “show me all new posts from this user” on Facebook, too, back before they fucked up the News Feed in the 2010s and turned it into their manure delivery system.
- dwighttk 5y ago
  Same with YouTube. It is infuriating as a user.
  - orangegreen 5y ago
    What I really dislike now about YouTube's algorithm is its insistence on showing short videos. I do not come to YouTube to watch 30 second videos. If I want to watch short videos I'd go to Instagram or Tiktok. Yet, no. I am bombarded with short videos. I removed the videos from showing up on the home page with some CSS, so now I solely rely on related videos for non-subscription content. Those seem to be delivered based on engagement so they're usually longer. Unfortunately, half the time they're hour long videos. Come on YouTube, just give me a 5-10 minute video.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > What I really dislike now about YouTube's algorithm is its insistence on showing short videos. I do not come to YouTube to watch 30 second videos. If I want to watch short videos I'd go to Instagram or Tiktok. Yet, no. I am bombarded with short videos. Was it always like that, or is it them trying to ape Tiktok? I use Youtube a lot, but never from their home page. One of the most annoying things is how, whenever there's some hot new thing, the old things I like seem to race to destroy themselves to imitate it.
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        I use YouTube mostly from the Android app, and they are constantly pushing their "shorts" and COVID-19 propaganda. I'm even a Premium subscriber and have found no way to disable this.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      I was listening to the latest Reply All podcast about TikTok and they theorized that one big advantage the TikTok algorithm has for getting to know you is it gets to see like 50 - 60 reactions per hour of app usage, of whether the algo was hot or cold with each minute long video. YouTube is probably jealous because most of their data is just people putting on music playlists and not interacting at all.
cbsks 5y ago
“Yes, we know Facebook is not the only harmful corporation on Earth, but sweet-jeepers-boy-howdy it is a blood-curdling fart in the elevator of existence.” I can definitely relate to this.
- bnjemian 5y ago
  I think we should all take a moment to reflect on the true poetry that is that quote.
roenxi 5y ago
This is really interesting to watch, I hope there are some academics out there charting out the facts of the rise and fall of social networks for the rest of us to follow along, there are so many interesting things happening in the US big tech world. I think people overestimate how quickly competition happens and underestimate how powerful it is. There is a massive hole for new competitors to move in to the social media space. I see Brett Weinstein has finally decided YouTube is untenable, for example. This is just another data point in a trend of people with interesting opinions rediscovering the dangers of centralisation. I single out this quote from early in the article: > For the past few years, we at Damn Interesting have been hearing from scores of long-time fans who were under the mistaken impression that we had ceased all operations years ago. What this says to me is it takes people a few years to notice when a social network is no longer providing value. That sits well with my assumption that users actually leaving a platform is a long lagging indicator that the platform is dead. The early sign is that the content producers are being squeezed.
- austincheney 5y ago
  According to HN today social media is a necessity that must be forced on children: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942843 Parents that say otherwise are the great evil. It does make me wonder how many of those wonderful individuals (experts) actually are parents.
  - cortesoft 5y ago
    Smashing the shit out of a phone to prove a point is a horrible example to set as a parent.
    - austincheney 5y ago
      Do you have teenage children?
      - fsloth 5y ago
        I do and would agree smashing a phone is terrible example. If anything it shows authority has been lost and the parent is flailing desperately. Sure, you can get compliance just like you can get compliance by pepper spraying someone but it's not how to do good parenting. You can of course remove the phone if it seems it's warranted. Parents are eligible to critical interventions IMO. There are times when parents actually need to intervene. But this intervention should be taken from a position of dignity, authority, respect and minimal violence. The quality of intervention depends on the situation. As a parent of a slightly autistic child for example I've had to restrain the child physically to stop the child for harming themself or the anyone else during a meltdown. I would never smash any of my childs property. Remove - yes, if the situation warrants it.
dwighttk 5y ago
I mean I hate Facebook because they messed up the feed, but looking at it from their point of view, why would anyone advertise if they just give you an rss(like) feed to your fans? Is there some balance of algorithmic feed with ads where it isn’t awful and some people buy ads? Maybe there is but Facebook is just too greedy?
- otterley 5y ago
  The point of advertising is to reach people who aren’t already your customers.
  - dwighttk 5y ago
    A point, not the only point.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Advertising is also used to keep a brand in the forefront of people's mind. Advertising evolved from selling an item/service to selling a lifestyle. There are ad campaigns that never really mention a product specifically, but just emphasize the brand. They want to ensure that even if you currently use their product, you will not just take a chance on the competitor's product because your subconcious is flooded with these re-enforcement campaigns and it becomes Pavlovian response
ageek123 5y ago
Isn't this also true of Twitter? Why always such unique hate for FB? Because they don't deplatform conservatives quite as aggressively as Twitter? "We’re sure many of you, like us, have experienced first-hand how Facebook gives people license to be their worst selves. It can elevate mere differences of political opinion into anger and hostility, pushing friends and family into extreme views, turning loved ones into ugly caricatures of their former selves. Perhaps you have even regretted some of your own posts there; the Facebook interface is designed to make it difficult to engage in good-faith disagreements."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- blhack 5y ago
  Most tech/journalist types use twitter and are much less likely to criticize it.
- roenxi 5y ago
  Twitter is totally unsuitable for intelligent discussion. To make a point with nuance requires paragraphs of text. Even a typical forum (looks around) can't really handle the amount of text required to make a satisfying, representative and well rounded argument. Twitter gets some hate because it can push the vibe of a situation in a weird political direction, but Facebook's overzealous moderation actually stifles something closer to real debate. Also, Facebook is where communities are organising so the bans hurt more.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Twitter is a dumber system with a more focused user base, so it’s more what you make it. Facebook has everyone and is designed to drive engagement. It’s harder to prune your feed and it’s easier for people who need to STFU to speak.
- dabinat 5y ago
  Twitter is a smaller, less powerful company with a much smaller userbase and it only really has the main Twitter service, while Facebook is more encompassing with services like Messenger, groups, events, pages, Marketplace, Workplace, dating, Portal and now a Substack clone (not to mention Instagram, WhatsApp and Oculus). Also, Twitter’s feed is (largely) chronological.
rootusrootus 5y ago
I've tried. I deleted my FB account. All it really got me was cut off from a lot of old friends and extended family. I ended up re-creating the account after a year, and then slowly building my friends list back up (but I'm far more restrictive now about who can be FB friends). A couple old friends won't talk to me because they think I de-friended them specifically and took it personally. Oops! Maybe it's evil. But it fulfills a useful role.
- sebmellen 5y ago
  I always have dreamed of a world in which the global Facebook that won was more like Wikipedia. I bet if we didn’t have Wikipedia, people would say such a project would never work. Fortunately we do. Now, imagine a basic, open “friend book” with barebones Wikipedia-esque design for the purpose of maintaining social connections. Wouldn’t that be grand?
  - forcry 5y ago
    >Facebook that won was more like Wikipedia. Wikipedia actually is failing as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0P4Cf0UCwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0P4Cf0UCwU
    - sebmellen 5y ago
      Bah, Larry Sanger tried to shill me Everipedia at a crypto conference a few years ago. Maybe he is worth listening to on this topic but Everipedia is a complete joke. All platforms have problems. I don’t like a lot of Wikipedia’s policies. But I’d for damn sure choose a Wikipedia run “Face Book” over Facebook, Inc.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    > Now, imagine a basic, open “friend book” with barebones Wikipedia-esque design for the purpose of maintaining social connections. Wasn't that the whole point of Diaspora foundation? Not really sure what ever happened to that social media project?
  - 5y ago
burlesona 5y ago
> In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. > We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before. Couldn’t agree more. I deleted Facebook years ago and haven’t missed it.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  This feels almost like just desserts to me. They had several obvious opportunities to take a moral stand, but they didn't, until it directly affected their organization. This is the same bullshit we have been seeing for years. Nobody cares about privacy or security or social justice or anything other than their own narrow little world.
- PrefixKitten 5y ago
  >Couldn’t agree more. I deleted Facebook years ago and haven’t missed it. This is absurdly close to the exact same thing i say to the people i know lol. The only difference being that it's only been a little over a year since mine was deleted.
motohagiography 5y ago
So, people who didn't get sucked into facebook, twitter and other social media problems, are they just like stopped clock right twice a day, or should we consult their prescience on other things that may also be not in our best interests? There are people who want to turn the real world into a live action version of facebook/reddit/twitter. They've got this one weird trick, and historians hate them. You'll never guess where they work now.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  > should we consult their prescience on other things Absolutely. just buy my book for $9.99 ahem sorry Truly, all the things people are now seeing as bad did get mentioned by some of the crusty holdouts and refuseniks. It can be especially personally edifying, for example, to go back and read opinions you disagreed with then but now value more; this is one of those cases where there's plenty of "I told you so." Some of which was horseshit then and is still is now. One of my favorites is "geolocation should be used as network ID"; much of the hard routing becomes "free" and the need for encryption and forwarding points becomes explicit from the start. Now with 5G we're reaching that point; but with literally layers of legacy translations that are just extra baggage now. Wouldn't it have been easier to just do it right at the beginning?
- karaterobot 5y ago
  I deleted all my social media accounts in 2008. I'm not here to say "I told you so", because I didn't actually tell anybody anything. Just my choice. But, here is the one weird trick: If you think something is good, do it. But, if you make up your mind that it's bad, stop doing it. Following that rule would have kept a lot of people off these services. To my knowledge, nothing people say about social media today is fundamentally different than what they were saying in 2008: it destroys privacy, it destroys discourse, it consumes attention, and it puts control over your life into the hands of corporations. And people recognize this: I can't even count the number of times I've heard someone say (or write) "social media sucks" and then kept right on with it. My only advice is, if you feel like something is bad for you, don't do it.
  - 5y ago
axaxs 5y ago
I just wish more people and especially companies would join this movement to leave. I hate that the city I live in has almost zero online presence. If I want to sell something, everyone says 'use FB market.' As someone who refuses to, I have a ton of stuff waiting for the yearly yard sale. The neighborhood I live in also only posts updates to FB. So cue the monthly surprise(garbage not picked up, road repaving, etc) and never knowing about it in advance. And don't get me started on companies with zero website and only some FB page. I know it's 'free', and at this point it feels petty, but I'm literally holding out until the end.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Buttons840 5y ago
  It's not free, you have to agree to terms and conditions. You shouldn't have to agree to FB terms to learn about government services, like your garbage schedule. Could be a lawsuit here.
  - axaxs 5y ago
    Technically perhaps correct, but my HOA pays for garbage so it's more neighborhood level. I have zero interest in interacting with them much less suing them. I just wish they'd spend 10 dollars to setup some simple website, but don't care enough to go through the ranks to suggest that...
    - erhk 5y ago
      Nasty grams about how they dont post updates anywhere would be a start. I'm sure that their laws say something vague about updates must be made available to all residents and you can swing that Facebook doesnt include all residents
      - ISL 5y ago
        Building out a simple website (Google Sites, etc.) that the HOA can update and then share to Facebook is another. Open web access then exists and yet those who choose FB are not cut off.
dalrympm 5y ago
>sweet-jeepers-boy-howdy it is a blood-curdling fart in the elevator of existence If you just read the HN comments and not the article... this is a taste of what you're missing out on.
- paulddraper 5y ago
  Jokes on you; one of the comments quotes it.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    Two of the comments now :)
AndrewKemendo 5y ago
I think it's worth pointing out that Zuckerberg and Sandberg both knew this was the trend and that eventually Facebook.com would burnout, hence the acquisitions of Whatsapp, IG etc... to ensure that they would have long term relevancy.
jes 5y ago
I view the engineers who work at Facebook as partly responsible for the damage it does in the world.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Do you view them as responsible for all of the good facebook has done? At the heart of it connecting so many people felt great until we realized why we left people in the past. Facebook is still the world's largest phonebook.
- throwaway1777 5y ago
  It’s sad people think this way. In general people working at Facebook are some of the most liberal and open minded people I’ve met. They are part of a huge organization and probably doing things you would agree with in their little piece of the world.
smw 5y ago
I've been wondering what it would take to build a Facebook-like thing that isn't evil. Thoughts? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946350
- throwaway1777 5y ago
  Maybe controversial but I think the only way is benevolent dictatorship. Anything run by a large group of people eventually becomes political and corrupt or a money grab. People forget for the first 10 years of its existence up until about 2015 most people thought Facebook was a great company. Zuck could turn it back into that since he has control, but it’s a huge machine now and a public company so it would be very tough to do so.
- wintermutestwin 5y ago
  A public benefit corporation that provides a way to keep family and friends in the loop. No news. No businesses. No politics. Lots of baby and dog photos.
- cvwright 5y ago
  I've been thinking about this a lot over the past couple of years. I even took a sabbatical from my job to build a prototype. IMO the big thing that most alternatives are missing is end-to-end encryption, like Signal. Otherwise there's no guarantee that you gain anything by moving to a new platform, as long as they can still track/profile you and sell your data, and as long as they can inject whatever garbage they want into your feed. I think this explains a lot of the reluctance to try anything new. Might as well stick with the Zucc you know than risk it with a new one.
some1else 5y ago
Interested in what value $FB ends up at when Instagram, Whatsapp and possibly Messenger are split away. For some reason, individual companies used to appreciate after being spun out. How much value past Events is left in Facebook? Marketplace? VR? Workplace? Metaverse?
cs702 5y ago
Great post. Even if you think you will disagree with it, go read the whole thing. In particular, I found this passage compelling: > In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before.
aphroz 5y ago
I am looking to do the same. What are the best alternatives to reach your followers? Do the majority of users still read their emails?
xwdv 5y ago
It’s clear companies are now going overboard with algorithms. Instead of getting fancy, they should just give it to you straight. Chronological ordering. You subscribe to a page? You see that content. You don’t follow something? You don’t see that content. Just keep it simple. Will there be less revenue? Perhaps, but the platform may become more enjoyable to use.
cratermoon 5y ago
I wonder how long before the groups on these platforms realize how much the social media companies are using the same variable rewards, random payoff, low friction, and rule of reciprocity to manipulate the groups or companies into buying (or continuing to buy) ads? Measuring ad effectiveness is already hard, now the social media giants are both the platform and the technology for measuring "engagement". Isn't it blindingly obvious that organizations that use social media to reach their audiences are essentially putting coins in a slot machine, pulling the "show my content" lever, and getting a good feeling when the metrics show their post 'went viral'?
- gregsadetsky 5y ago
  You’ve exactly described the Facebook “Boost” button, with its murky (at best) effectiveness, and pervasiveness throughout FB’s UI.
- yosito 5y ago
  Are you describing Facebook, or dating apps?
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    They're all in on the Skinner box traps.
pkamb 5y ago
I've actually started using Facebook again regularly, recently. Not really to connect with friends... mainly for Marketplace (RIP Craigslist, unfortunately) and to post on a couple active private Facebook Groups. Local community groups and some for hobbies/interests. What strikes me is how exhausting using Facebook is for these purposes. To read any Group you are constantly tapping tiny a "View More Comments" button. Very hard to read FB as you would HN or a forum, despite some great Groups and information there. When you get to the bottom of a group post, it shows you an endless scroll of "similar" content from entirely separate groups. I hate the entire experience. Anything to get you to keep scrolling and see another sponsored post. Marketplace started out as a modern, local, second-hand goods CL competitor, but has devolved into shipping new cheap meme items. My main Marketplace feed is now crap like Rick & Morty stickers. Or the constant sponsored ads for new furniture or other products. Very hard to use Marketplace how I want to, which is finding local used antiques and unique items. I really wish CL had adapted to the new mobile landscape and competition a decade ago.
- phy6 5y ago
  I deleted my real account earlier this year, but if I want to get to the marketplace I use a fake account (I had set up several years ago for political research.) I then use FBPurity and some uBlock Origin code to remove all "ship to you" ads. The uBlock codes are on reddit, search for "Blocking "Ships to you" posts in Facebook Marketplace"
- qwertygnu 5y ago
  > RIP Craigslist, unfortunately What happened to craigslist?? I still use it all the time...
  - fouc 5y ago
    Probably depends on location, and diminishing marketshare over time.
DamnInteresting 5y ago
Author of the Damn Interesting post here. Internally we worried that there would be some fallout from abandoning our Facebook page--by the numbers we had more followers there than any other social media platform, by far. But the response from our audience has been almost 100% positive, even from our Facebook followers[1]. It put only a tiny dent in our site's daily traffic. It resulted in many new subscribers to our email list. There was a flurry of new donations, with attached supportive comments about the amputation. Facebook was exactly the gangrenous thing it appeared to be, and we are better off without it. If you will permit me the indulgence of quoting my own post: > Some call it a “necessary evil,” but if that’s the case let’s do all we can to make it unnecessary. For any organizations considering the same move, I cannot recommend it enough. It feels like cutting off contact with a toxic acquaintance--equal parts relief and optimism. [1] https://www.facebook.com/DamnInt/posts/10158097374656961 https://www.facebook.com/DamnInt/posts/10158097374656961
- cable2600 5y ago
  How can you tell the real people from the spambots? I am on a Bitcoin group on Facebook and spambots keep making their way through the registration process.
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    Then your mods are terrible. FB's moderation tools are primitive, but they do exist. Your group should require a moderator's approval to gain posting privileges, and require a few questions to be answered as well: - Do you agree not to make posts advertising any business or profit-making entity on this group? - Do you agree that all of your posts and comments on this group will be individually written by you? Reject any user who doesn't say yes to both of those and set all new users to post approval for the first week. It's a lot of work because, as mentioned, FB's tools are crap. Your problem might be exacerbated by the subject matter.
  - mikro2nd 5y ago
    If I interpret OP correctly: It's not the spambots that are the problem. It's Facebook that's the problem.
d--b 5y ago
Can someone change the title to “to hell with facebook”? It took me a while to figure out...
rdiddly 5y ago
No S-H-I-Curling-Broom!
downWidOutaFite 5y ago
Facebook even fails as a tool for keeping your friends and family updated with life events. I quit when I realized that my "friends" weren't even seeing my posts unless Facebook deemed them worthy. When I started jazzing up my posts, adding happy pics and extra emojis, I realized I was being manipulated. I was having to compete with professional spammers^H^H^H marketers for my friend's attention. It's gross.
- smsm42 5y ago
  Yup, that's completely stupid: 1. Join Facebook so you can keep up with what your friends are doing 2. We're not going to show you random half of what your friends are doing because we need space for those ads. WTH is the point then?
nazrulmum10 5y ago
For the past few years, we at Damn Interesting have been hearing from scores of long-time fans who were under the mistaken impression that we had ceased all operations years ago. These fans are typically delighted to hear that a) we are still writing and podcasting; and b) there is a wealth of new content since they last visited. When we ask them what caused the assumption of our demise, they invariably cite the fact that our posts disappeared from their Facebook news feeds. This trend roughly coincides with Facebook’s introduction of “boosting” for pages; in this new model, according to the stats we can see, Facebook stopped showing our posts to approximately 94% of our followers, demanding a fee to “boost” each post into an ad, which would make it visible to more of our audience. We lost contact with tens of thousands of fans practically overnight. We don’t mind paying for a service if it is valuable, but we absolutely don’t want to reach our audience by buying ad space on Facebook. Yuck. But no other option is given to reach the many people who previously followed our posts, and who presumably want to continue to do so. We established our Facebook page in 2008 as the fledgling social media site was gaining in currency, and we continued to maintain our page on the side, mostly as an afterthought. In the intervening years Facebook evolved from a dubious curiosity into a megacorporation that is firmly in the service of bad ideas. In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before. To the tens of thousands of fans who follow us on Facebook: our sincere apologies. You’re probably not seeing most of our posts there, anyway. For the few who do still see them, we no longer wish to share content on Facebook which might cause people to spend time there. We hope you’ll stay in touch via one of our multiple non-Facebook options
1ncorrect 5y ago
Friends don’t let friends use Facebook.
Complexicate 5y ago
And from The Oatmeal: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people_2021 https://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people_2021
Noos 5y ago
I don't think facebook is going to lose much sleep over that site going; it looks painfully low-rent, and when your grand "to hell with facebook" post gets all of 45 comments in 12 days, I'd worry less about moral posturing and more about getting new users. And honestly, the anti facebook hate gets old. You all are just using it as a scapegoat to avoid thinking about what your own companies are doing or the changes you can make; its a ritual in this place now to have fashion-hate on certain things, and it gets really tiring. There is no way you can avoid negative interactions on the web if you have any real presence at scale, and complex systems are always going to have unintended effects that won't be seen till later and only can be mitigated up to a point. The constant longing for a small scale web with large scale benefits simply isn't feasible.
cmoscoso 5y ago
You have been dezuckered. Congratulations!
nicbou 5y ago
I noticed that Facebook made a few friends completely disappear, even though they posted regularly. Now that I think of it, I just need Facebook to be an RSS reader. Show me a list of unread events from different channels in chronological order. That's it. In any case, I don't use Facebook anymore. I unsubscribed from everything and everyone, and stopped posting a long time ago.
smsm42 5y ago
It's great that people are starting to wake up to the costs of using Facebook as a primary platform. I unfortunately have to visit the site from time to time due to a couple of groups - like my gym or my gaming club - having a page there, but I wish people started finding better solutions (which by now is anything, most social media platforms would do, and Facebook literally doesn't have a single service those pages need that isn't available on a dozen of other platforms). On that note, does anybody know of any way of exporting FB group content outside FB - as RSS or whatever else feed? I couldn't find any obvious way and I don't have enough free time to develop an unobvious way from scratch. Any help (even getting 80% there) would be greatly appreciated.

353 points by axiolite 5y ago

I've tapered down my usage of Facebook over the past few years. Now when I use it, it just makes me angry. Why would I spend time on a website that makes me angry? What's worse is the implied social obligation to use Facebook. My mom occasionally informs me that I've been invited to a family event through Facebook. I now just wait for a normal invitation, (mail, phone call, email,) or ignore the event. I just don't want to get sucked into Facebook just to check on party invites.

nerdponx 5y ago
I just tell people "I don't use Facebook anymore" and let them deal with it. It's a reverse network effect: the more people that stop using the platform, the more people will give up on it.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  When I tell people I have no social media, they can text me or email me, I always get kind of a weird look but they mostly do it. I'm sure I'm missing out on some stream-of-consciousness blather from a lot of my acquaintances, but I grew up without any of that and I don't feel that I need it now.
nicbou 5y ago
Delete all your posts and photos, and put a generic photo as your profile picture. It gets the message across.

otterley 5y ago

So Facebook is no longer showing all posts to people who intentionally subscribe to a page? If so, what, if anything, does “subscription” or “following” mean, then? I realize I’m showing my age here, but I remember when missing an issue of a paper “subscription” was cause for anger and resulted in an apology from the publisher (and usually a redelivered copy). But I also remember when “follow” meant “show me all new posts from this user” on Facebook, too, back before they fucked up the News Feed in the 2010s and turned it into their manure delivery system.

dwighttk 5y ago
Same with YouTube. It is infuriating as a user.
- orangegreen 5y ago
  What I really dislike now about YouTube's algorithm is its insistence on showing short videos. I do not come to YouTube to watch 30 second videos. If I want to watch short videos I'd go to Instagram or Tiktok. Yet, no. I am bombarded with short videos. I removed the videos from showing up on the home page with some CSS, so now I solely rely on related videos for non-subscription content. Those seem to be delivered based on engagement so they're usually longer. Unfortunately, half the time they're hour long videos. Come on YouTube, just give me a 5-10 minute video.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > What I really dislike now about YouTube's algorithm is its insistence on showing short videos. I do not come to YouTube to watch 30 second videos. If I want to watch short videos I'd go to Instagram or Tiktok. Yet, no. I am bombarded with short videos. Was it always like that, or is it them trying to ape Tiktok? I use Youtube a lot, but never from their home page. One of the most annoying things is how, whenever there's some hot new thing, the old things I like seem to race to destroy themselves to imitate it.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      I use YouTube mostly from the Android app, and they are constantly pushing their "shorts" and COVID-19 propaganda. I'm even a Premium subscriber and have found no way to disable this.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    I was listening to the latest Reply All podcast about TikTok and they theorized that one big advantage the TikTok algorithm has for getting to know you is it gets to see like 50 - 60 reactions per hour of app usage, of whether the algo was hot or cold with each minute long video. YouTube is probably jealous because most of their data is just people putting on music playlists and not interacting at all.

cbsks 5y ago

“Yes, we know Facebook is not the only harmful corporation on Earth, but sweet-jeepers-boy-howdy it is a blood-curdling fart in the elevator of existence.” I can definitely relate to this.

bnjemian 5y ago
I think we should all take a moment to reflect on the true poetry that is that quote.

roenxi 5y ago

This is really interesting to watch, I hope there are some academics out there charting out the facts of the rise and fall of social networks for the rest of us to follow along, there are so many interesting things happening in the US big tech world. I think people overestimate how quickly competition happens and underestimate how powerful it is. There is a massive hole for new competitors to move in to the social media space. I see Brett Weinstein has finally decided YouTube is untenable, for example. This is just another data point in a trend of people with interesting opinions rediscovering the dangers of centralisation. I single out this quote from early in the article: > For the past few years, we at Damn Interesting have been hearing from scores of long-time fans who were under the mistaken impression that we had ceased all operations years ago. What this says to me is it takes people a few years to notice when a social network is no longer providing value. That sits well with my assumption that users actually leaving a platform is a long lagging indicator that the platform is dead. The early sign is that the content producers are being squeezed.

austincheney 5y ago
According to HN today social media is a necessity that must be forced on children: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942843 Parents that say otherwise are the great evil. It does make me wonder how many of those wonderful individuals (experts) actually are parents.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  Smashing the shit out of a phone to prove a point is a horrible example to set as a parent.
  - austincheney 5y ago
    Do you have teenage children?
    - fsloth 5y ago
      I do and would agree smashing a phone is terrible example. If anything it shows authority has been lost and the parent is flailing desperately. Sure, you can get compliance just like you can get compliance by pepper spraying someone but it's not how to do good parenting. You can of course remove the phone if it seems it's warranted. Parents are eligible to critical interventions IMO. There are times when parents actually need to intervene. But this intervention should be taken from a position of dignity, authority, respect and minimal violence. The quality of intervention depends on the situation. As a parent of a slightly autistic child for example I've had to restrain the child physically to stop the child for harming themself or the anyone else during a meltdown. I would never smash any of my childs property. Remove - yes, if the situation warrants it.

dwighttk 5y ago

I mean I hate Facebook because they messed up the feed, but looking at it from their point of view, why would anyone advertise if they just give you an rss(like) feed to your fans? Is there some balance of algorithmic feed with ads where it isn’t awful and some people buy ads? Maybe there is but Facebook is just too greedy?

otterley 5y ago
The point of advertising is to reach people who aren’t already your customers.
- dwighttk 5y ago
  A point, not the only point.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Advertising is also used to keep a brand in the forefront of people's mind. Advertising evolved from selling an item/service to selling a lifestyle. There are ad campaigns that never really mention a product specifically, but just emphasize the brand. They want to ensure that even if you currently use their product, you will not just take a chance on the competitor's product because your subconcious is flooded with these re-enforcement campaigns and it becomes Pavlovian response

ageek123 5y ago

Isn't this also true of Twitter? Why always such unique hate for FB? Because they don't deplatform conservatives quite as aggressively as Twitter? "We’re sure many of you, like us, have experienced first-hand how Facebook gives people license to be their worst selves. It can elevate mere differences of political opinion into anger and hostility, pushing friends and family into extreme views, turning loved ones into ugly caricatures of their former selves. Perhaps you have even regretted some of your own posts there; the Facebook interface is designed to make it difficult to engage in good-faith disagreements."

deleted 5y ago
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blhack 5y ago
Most tech/journalist types use twitter and are much less likely to criticize it.
roenxi 5y ago
Twitter is totally unsuitable for intelligent discussion. To make a point with nuance requires paragraphs of text. Even a typical forum (looks around) can't really handle the amount of text required to make a satisfying, representative and well rounded argument. Twitter gets some hate because it can push the vibe of a situation in a weird political direction, but Facebook's overzealous moderation actually stifles something closer to real debate. Also, Facebook is where communities are organising so the bans hurt more.
Spooky23 5y ago
Twitter is a dumber system with a more focused user base, so it’s more what you make it. Facebook has everyone and is designed to drive engagement. It’s harder to prune your feed and it’s easier for people who need to STFU to speak.
dabinat 5y ago
Twitter is a smaller, less powerful company with a much smaller userbase and it only really has the main Twitter service, while Facebook is more encompassing with services like Messenger, groups, events, pages, Marketplace, Workplace, dating, Portal and now a Substack clone (not to mention Instagram, WhatsApp and Oculus). Also, Twitter’s feed is (largely) chronological.

rootusrootus 5y ago

I've tried. I deleted my FB account. All it really got me was cut off from a lot of old friends and extended family. I ended up re-creating the account after a year, and then slowly building my friends list back up (but I'm far more restrictive now about who can be FB friends). A couple old friends won't talk to me because they think I de-friended them specifically and took it personally. Oops! Maybe it's evil. But it fulfills a useful role.

sebmellen 5y ago
I always have dreamed of a world in which the global Facebook that won was more like Wikipedia. I bet if we didn’t have Wikipedia, people would say such a project would never work. Fortunately we do. Now, imagine a basic, open “friend book” with barebones Wikipedia-esque design for the purpose of maintaining social connections. Wouldn’t that be grand?
- forcry 5y ago
  >Facebook that won was more like Wikipedia. Wikipedia actually is failing as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0P4Cf0UCwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0P4Cf0UCwU
  - sebmellen 5y ago
    Bah, Larry Sanger tried to shill me Everipedia at a crypto conference a few years ago. Maybe he is worth listening to on this topic but Everipedia is a complete joke. All platforms have problems. I don’t like a lot of Wikipedia’s policies. But I’d for damn sure choose a Wikipedia run “Face Book” over Facebook, Inc.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  > Now, imagine a basic, open “friend book” with barebones Wikipedia-esque design for the purpose of maintaining social connections. Wasn't that the whole point of Diaspora foundation? Not really sure what ever happened to that social media project?
- 5y ago

burlesona 5y ago

> In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. > We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before. Couldn’t agree more. I deleted Facebook years ago and haven’t missed it.

nerdponx 5y ago
This feels almost like just desserts to me. They had several obvious opportunities to take a moral stand, but they didn't, until it directly affected their organization. This is the same bullshit we have been seeing for years. Nobody cares about privacy or security or social justice or anything other than their own narrow little world.
PrefixKitten 5y ago
>Couldn’t agree more. I deleted Facebook years ago and haven’t missed it. This is absurdly close to the exact same thing i say to the people i know lol. The only difference being that it's only been a little over a year since mine was deleted.

motohagiography 5y ago

So, people who didn't get sucked into facebook, twitter and other social media problems, are they just like stopped clock right twice a day, or should we consult their prescience on other things that may also be not in our best interests? There are people who want to turn the real world into a live action version of facebook/reddit/twitter. They've got this one weird trick, and historians hate them. You'll never guess where they work now.

h2odragon 5y ago
> should we consult their prescience on other things Absolutely. just buy my book for $9.99 ahem sorry Truly, all the things people are now seeing as bad did get mentioned by some of the crusty holdouts and refuseniks. It can be especially personally edifying, for example, to go back and read opinions you disagreed with then but now value more; this is one of those cases where there's plenty of "I told you so." Some of which was horseshit then and is still is now. One of my favorites is "geolocation should be used as network ID"; much of the hard routing becomes "free" and the need for encryption and forwarding points becomes explicit from the start. Now with 5G we're reaching that point; but with literally layers of legacy translations that are just extra baggage now. Wouldn't it have been easier to just do it right at the beginning?
karaterobot 5y ago
I deleted all my social media accounts in 2008. I'm not here to say "I told you so", because I didn't actually tell anybody anything. Just my choice. But, here is the one weird trick: If you think something is good, do it. But, if you make up your mind that it's bad, stop doing it. Following that rule would have kept a lot of people off these services. To my knowledge, nothing people say about social media today is fundamentally different than what they were saying in 2008: it destroys privacy, it destroys discourse, it consumes attention, and it puts control over your life into the hands of corporations. And people recognize this: I can't even count the number of times I've heard someone say (or write) "social media sucks" and then kept right on with it. My only advice is, if you feel like something is bad for you, don't do it.
- 5y ago

axaxs 5y ago

I just wish more people and especially companies would join this movement to leave. I hate that the city I live in has almost zero online presence. If I want to sell something, everyone says 'use FB market.' As someone who refuses to, I have a ton of stuff waiting for the yearly yard sale. The neighborhood I live in also only posts updates to FB. So cue the monthly surprise(garbage not picked up, road repaving, etc) and never knowing about it in advance. And don't get me started on companies with zero website and only some FB page. I know it's 'free', and at this point it feels petty, but I'm literally holding out until the end.

deleted 5y ago
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Buttons840 5y ago
It's not free, you have to agree to terms and conditions. You shouldn't have to agree to FB terms to learn about government services, like your garbage schedule. Could be a lawsuit here.
- axaxs 5y ago
  Technically perhaps correct, but my HOA pays for garbage so it's more neighborhood level. I have zero interest in interacting with them much less suing them. I just wish they'd spend 10 dollars to setup some simple website, but don't care enough to go through the ranks to suggest that...
  - erhk 5y ago
    Nasty grams about how they dont post updates anywhere would be a start. I'm sure that their laws say something vague about updates must be made available to all residents and you can swing that Facebook doesnt include all residents
    - ISL 5y ago
      Building out a simple website (Google Sites, etc.) that the HOA can update and then share to Facebook is another. Open web access then exists and yet those who choose FB are not cut off.

dalrympm 5y ago

>sweet-jeepers-boy-howdy it is a blood-curdling fart in the elevator of existence If you just read the HN comments and not the article... this is a taste of what you're missing out on.

paulddraper 5y ago
Jokes on you; one of the comments quotes it.
- smsm42 5y ago
  Two of the comments now :)

AndrewKemendo 5y ago

I think it's worth pointing out that Zuckerberg and Sandberg both knew this was the trend and that eventually Facebook.com would burnout, hence the acquisitions of Whatsapp, IG etc... to ensure that they would have long term relevancy.

jes 5y ago

I view the engineers who work at Facebook as partly responsible for the damage it does in the world.

ipaddr 5y ago
Do you view them as responsible for all of the good facebook has done? At the heart of it connecting so many people felt great until we realized why we left people in the past. Facebook is still the world's largest phonebook.
throwaway1777 5y ago
It’s sad people think this way. In general people working at Facebook are some of the most liberal and open minded people I’ve met. They are part of a huge organization and probably doing things you would agree with in their little piece of the world.

smw 5y ago

I've been wondering what it would take to build a Facebook-like thing that isn't evil. Thoughts? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946350

throwaway1777 5y ago
Maybe controversial but I think the only way is benevolent dictatorship. Anything run by a large group of people eventually becomes political and corrupt or a money grab. People forget for the first 10 years of its existence up until about 2015 most people thought Facebook was a great company. Zuck could turn it back into that since he has control, but it’s a huge machine now and a public company so it would be very tough to do so.
wintermutestwin 5y ago
A public benefit corporation that provides a way to keep family and friends in the loop. No news. No businesses. No politics. Lots of baby and dog photos.
cvwright 5y ago
I've been thinking about this a lot over the past couple of years. I even took a sabbatical from my job to build a prototype. IMO the big thing that most alternatives are missing is end-to-end encryption, like Signal. Otherwise there's no guarantee that you gain anything by moving to a new platform, as long as they can still track/profile you and sell your data, and as long as they can inject whatever garbage they want into your feed. I think this explains a lot of the reluctance to try anything new. Might as well stick with the Zucc you know than risk it with a new one.

some1else 5y ago

Interested in what value $FB ends up at when Instagram, Whatsapp and possibly Messenger are split away. For some reason, individual companies used to appreciate after being spun out. How much value past Events is left in Facebook? Marketplace? VR? Workplace? Metaverse?

cs702 5y ago

Great post. Even if you think you will disagree with it, go read the whole thing. In particular, I found this passage compelling: > In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before.

aphroz 5y ago

I am looking to do the same. What are the best alternatives to reach your followers? Do the majority of users still read their emails?

xwdv 5y ago

It’s clear companies are now going overboard with algorithms. Instead of getting fancy, they should just give it to you straight. Chronological ordering. You subscribe to a page? You see that content. You don’t follow something? You don’t see that content. Just keep it simple. Will there be less revenue? Perhaps, but the platform may become more enjoyable to use.

cratermoon 5y ago

I wonder how long before the groups on these platforms realize how much the social media companies are using the same variable rewards, random payoff, low friction, and rule of reciprocity to manipulate the groups or companies into buying (or continuing to buy) ads? Measuring ad effectiveness is already hard, now the social media giants are both the platform and the technology for measuring "engagement". Isn't it blindingly obvious that organizations that use social media to reach their audiences are essentially putting coins in a slot machine, pulling the "show my content" lever, and getting a good feeling when the metrics show their post 'went viral'?

gregsadetsky 5y ago
You’ve exactly described the Facebook “Boost” button, with its murky (at best) effectiveness, and pervasiveness throughout FB’s UI.
yosito 5y ago
Are you describing Facebook, or dating apps?
- cratermoon 5y ago
  They're all in on the Skinner box traps.

pkamb 5y ago

I've actually started using Facebook again regularly, recently. Not really to connect with friends... mainly for Marketplace (RIP Craigslist, unfortunately) and to post on a couple active private Facebook Groups. Local community groups and some for hobbies/interests. What strikes me is how exhausting using Facebook is for these purposes. To read any Group you are constantly tapping tiny a "View More Comments" button. Very hard to read FB as you would HN or a forum, despite some great Groups and information there. When you get to the bottom of a group post, it shows you an endless scroll of "similar" content from entirely separate groups. I hate the entire experience. Anything to get you to keep scrolling and see another sponsored post. Marketplace started out as a modern, local, second-hand goods CL competitor, but has devolved into shipping new cheap meme items. My main Marketplace feed is now crap like Rick & Morty stickers. Or the constant sponsored ads for new furniture or other products. Very hard to use Marketplace how I want to, which is finding local used antiques and unique items. I really wish CL had adapted to the new mobile landscape and competition a decade ago.

phy6 5y ago
I deleted my real account earlier this year, but if I want to get to the marketplace I use a fake account (I had set up several years ago for political research.) I then use FBPurity and some uBlock Origin code to remove all "ship to you" ads. The uBlock codes are on reddit, search for "Blocking "Ships to you" posts in Facebook Marketplace"
qwertygnu 5y ago
> RIP Craigslist, unfortunately What happened to craigslist?? I still use it all the time...
- fouc 5y ago
  Probably depends on location, and diminishing marketshare over time.

DamnInteresting 5y ago

Author of the Damn Interesting post here. Internally we worried that there would be some fallout from abandoning our Facebook page--by the numbers we had more followers there than any other social media platform, by far. But the response from our audience has been almost 100% positive, even from our Facebook followers[1]. It put only a tiny dent in our site's daily traffic. It resulted in many new subscribers to our email list. There was a flurry of new donations, with attached supportive comments about the amputation. Facebook was exactly the gangrenous thing it appeared to be, and we are better off without it. If you will permit me the indulgence of quoting my own post: > Some call it a “necessary evil,” but if that’s the case let’s do all we can to make it unnecessary. For any organizations considering the same move, I cannot recommend it enough. It feels like cutting off contact with a toxic acquaintance--equal parts relief and optimism. [1] https://www.facebook.com/DamnInt/posts/10158097374656961 https://www.facebook.com/DamnInt/posts/10158097374656961

cable2600 5y ago
How can you tell the real people from the spambots? I am on a Bitcoin group on Facebook and spambots keep making their way through the registration process.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  Then your mods are terrible. FB's moderation tools are primitive, but they do exist. Your group should require a moderator's approval to gain posting privileges, and require a few questions to be answered as well: - Do you agree not to make posts advertising any business or profit-making entity on this group? - Do you agree that all of your posts and comments on this group will be individually written by you? Reject any user who doesn't say yes to both of those and set all new users to post approval for the first week. It's a lot of work because, as mentioned, FB's tools are crap. Your problem might be exacerbated by the subject matter.
- mikro2nd 5y ago
  If I interpret OP correctly: It's not the spambots that are the problem. It's Facebook that's the problem.

d--b 5y ago

Can someone change the title to “to hell with facebook”? It took me a while to figure out...

rdiddly 5y ago

No S-H-I-Curling-Broom!

downWidOutaFite 5y ago

Facebook even fails as a tool for keeping your friends and family updated with life events. I quit when I realized that my "friends" weren't even seeing my posts unless Facebook deemed them worthy. When I started jazzing up my posts, adding happy pics and extra emojis, I realized I was being manipulated. I was having to compete with professional spammers^H^H^H marketers for my friend's attention. It's gross.

smsm42 5y ago
Yup, that's completely stupid: 1. Join Facebook so you can keep up with what your friends are doing 2. We're not going to show you random half of what your friends are doing because we need space for those ads. WTH is the point then?

nazrulmum10 5y ago

For the past few years, we at Damn Interesting have been hearing from scores of long-time fans who were under the mistaken impression that we had ceased all operations years ago. These fans are typically delighted to hear that a) we are still writing and podcasting; and b) there is a wealth of new content since they last visited. When we ask them what caused the assumption of our demise, they invariably cite the fact that our posts disappeared from their Facebook news feeds. This trend roughly coincides with Facebook’s introduction of “boosting” for pages; in this new model, according to the stats we can see, Facebook stopped showing our posts to approximately 94% of our followers, demanding a fee to “boost” each post into an ad, which would make it visible to more of our audience. We lost contact with tens of thousands of fans practically overnight. We don’t mind paying for a service if it is valuable, but we absolutely don’t want to reach our audience by buying ad space on Facebook. Yuck. But no other option is given to reach the many people who previously followed our posts, and who presumably want to continue to do so. We established our Facebook page in 2008 as the fledgling social media site was gaining in currency, and we continued to maintain our page on the side, mostly as an afterthought. In the intervening years Facebook evolved from a dubious curiosity into a megacorporation that is firmly in the service of bad ideas. In a move that feels long overdue, we at Damn Interesting are abandoning all interactions and connections with Facebook. We really should have done this back when it was revealed that Facebook used the ubiquitous embedded “Like on Facebook” buttons to follow people’s movements around the web without their knowledge or consent. We should have done this when Facebook literally toyed with people’s emotions by showing some people more positive stories in their newsfeeds, and others more negative stories, to see how it would affect their emotional states. We should have done this when it was revealed that Facebook allowed advertisers to target ads to people who expressed interest in topics such as “Jew hater.” We should have done this so many times before. To the tens of thousands of fans who follow us on Facebook: our sincere apologies. You’re probably not seeing most of our posts there, anyway. For the few who do still see them, we no longer wish to share content on Facebook which might cause people to spend time there. We hope you’ll stay in touch via one of our multiple non-Facebook options

1ncorrect 5y ago

Friends don’t let friends use Facebook.

Complexicate 5y ago

And from The Oatmeal: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people_2021 https://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people_2021

Noos 5y ago

I don't think facebook is going to lose much sleep over that site going; it looks painfully low-rent, and when your grand "to hell with facebook" post gets all of 45 comments in 12 days, I'd worry less about moral posturing and more about getting new users. And honestly, the anti facebook hate gets old. You all are just using it as a scapegoat to avoid thinking about what your own companies are doing or the changes you can make; its a ritual in this place now to have fashion-hate on certain things, and it gets really tiring. There is no way you can avoid negative interactions on the web if you have any real presence at scale, and complex systems are always going to have unintended effects that won't be seen till later and only can be mitigated up to a point. The constant longing for a small scale web with large scale benefits simply isn't feasible.

cmoscoso 5y ago

You have been dezuckered. Congratulations!

nicbou 5y ago

I noticed that Facebook made a few friends completely disappear, even though they posted regularly. Now that I think of it, I just need Facebook to be an RSS reader. Show me a list of unread events from different channels in chronological order. That's it. In any case, I don't use Facebook anymore. I unsubscribed from everything and everyone, and stopped posting a long time ago.

smsm42 5y ago

It's great that people are starting to wake up to the costs of using Facebook as a primary platform. I unfortunately have to visit the site from time to time due to a couple of groups - like my gym or my gaming club - having a page there, but I wish people started finding better solutions (which by now is anything, most social media platforms would do, and Facebook literally doesn't have a single service those pages need that isn't available on a dozen of other platforms). On that note, does anybody know of any way of exporting FB group content outside FB - as RSS or whatever else feed? I couldn't find any obvious way and I don't have enough free time to develop an unobvious way from scratch. Any help (even getting 80% there) would be greatly appreciated.