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> It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequit

> It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequity and capitalism is legit? What if any generalized hostility to geek culture is based on the perception that it worships capitalism and is itself generally resistant if not hostile to social justice stands? > To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt. What if some people want none of them to exist?

perl4ever 5y ago
I'm not up for arguing any of that stuff in general. The point is, assuming all of those are reasonable opinions, why Amazon? If the opinions are generic, then why don't they result in a broadly diverse set of observations about many different facets of our entire society? Even if the context is limited to Wal-Mart, I feel (and this could be my particular bubble) like the hate for Wal-Mart has just faded away. I mean, you may affirm that you still think Wal-Mart is terrible, I'm just saying I haven't felt bombarded with that in quite a while. It feels coordinated in waves. Fake. And this is where you say "shut up, whataboutism" as if I were an Amazon spokesperson.
- eevilspock 5y ago
  you can peruse my comment history. if it isn’t as broad as you suggest, that’s more a function of HN. also, my broader comments invariably get downvoted to hell. not that my other comments don’t. not that i care. (i upvoted all of yours above) there’s a unique reason to bring up Amazon. Nearly everyone shops there, so nearly everyone is complicit. Including liberals. Especially liberals. It’s the complicit that’s my true target. It’s our culture-wide moral failure. Bezos isn’t the real problem. It’s all of us. As Dostoevsky would say, we are all responsible.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    >It’s our culture-wide moral failure If Amazon vanished tomorrow, then there would no longer be a culture-wide moral failure?
    - eevilspock 5y ago
      If Amazon vanished tomorrow *as a result of* our culture changing, then yes -- it would mean a seismic cultural change rooted in a seismic morality change. At the *very* least we'd be on the path to a moral mend. With all due respect (as I said, I've upvoted all your comments), I don't think you're trying very hard to hear me. If people can't extract themselves from their Amazon addiction (i.e. their addictions to convenience and materialism built on the exploitation of others as well as disregard for the planet's health), then we have no chance. If liberals (i.e. those proudly flying the flag of social and environmental responsibility) can't own up to their own complicity *and* change their ways, then we have no chance. If you grok what I'm saying, you'd understand why I, unlike most, shine my spotlight on (neo)liberals and the things liberals do/use/perpetuate, and not on conservatives/Trump supporters. Especially since liberals use Trump and conservatives as scapegoats, providing cover for their own moral failure. So yes, my spotlight is on Amazon over Walmart. The Democrat party of the GOP. Etc. I think, given your apparent agreement that things are fucked up even if we don't agree on underlying cause, that your insistence on nitpicking because someone isn't attacking or highlighting problems the same way you would speaks to some other issue that only you can fathom. Not sure there is a point in continuing if you are unable to at least understand what I'm saying.

perl4ever 5y ago

I'm not up for arguing any of that stuff in general. The point is, assuming all of those are reasonable opinions, why Amazon? If the opinions are generic, then why don't they result in a broadly diverse set of observations about many different facets of our entire society? Even if the context is limited to Wal-Mart, I feel (and this could be my particular bubble) like the hate for Wal-Mart has just faded away. I mean, you may affirm that you still think Wal-Mart is terrible, I'm just saying I haven't felt bombarded with that in quite a while. It feels coordinated in waves. Fake. And this is where you say "shut up, whataboutism" as if I were an Amazon spokesperson.

eevilspock 5y ago
you can peruse my comment history. if it isn’t as broad as you suggest, that’s more a function of HN. also, my broader comments invariably get downvoted to hell. not that my other comments don’t. not that i care. (i upvoted all of yours above) there’s a unique reason to bring up Amazon. Nearly everyone shops there, so nearly everyone is complicit. Including liberals. Especially liberals. It’s the complicit that’s my true target. It’s our culture-wide moral failure. Bezos isn’t the real problem. It’s all of us. As Dostoevsky would say, we are all responsible.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >It’s our culture-wide moral failure If Amazon vanished tomorrow, then there would no longer be a culture-wide moral failure?
  - eevilspock 5y ago
    If Amazon vanished tomorrow *as a result of* our culture changing, then yes -- it would mean a seismic cultural change rooted in a seismic morality change. At the *very* least we'd be on the path to a moral mend. With all due respect (as I said, I've upvoted all your comments), I don't think you're trying very hard to hear me. If people can't extract themselves from their Amazon addiction (i.e. their addictions to convenience and materialism built on the exploitation of others as well as disregard for the planet's health), then we have no chance. If liberals (i.e. those proudly flying the flag of social and environmental responsibility) can't own up to their own complicity *and* change their ways, then we have no chance. If you grok what I'm saying, you'd understand why I, unlike most, shine my spotlight on (neo)liberals and the things liberals do/use/perpetuate, and not on conservatives/Trump supporters. Especially since liberals use Trump and conservatives as scapegoats, providing cover for their own moral failure. So yes, my spotlight is on Amazon over Walmart. The Democrat party of the GOP. Etc. I think, given your apparent agreement that things are fucked up even if we don't agree on underlying cause, that your insistence on nitpicking because someone isn't attacking or highlighting problems the same way you would speaks to some other issue that only you can fathom. Not sure there is a point in continuing if you are unable to at least understand what I'm saying.