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Could someone chime in with how these farmers physically get this water? The article says "tap in" to the streams. Does that mean the farmers themselves drop a

Could someone chime in with how these farmers physically get this water? The article says "tap in" to the streams. Does that mean the farmers themselves drop a hose with a pump (or some other means of limited diversion) into the stream? Do they own the land the steam is on or does the government own the streams and provide permits for access? Is it generally the farmers themselves doing this or is there some middleman (public/private?) water distributor? If there's any suggested reading on this I'd be curious. I would have expected the state to simply charge more and more for this access rather than cut it off all at once.

colechristensen 5y ago
Pipes and ditches, often agreements or easements with neighbors. In general just because you own land a river runs through doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want to the river. Maybe the university of california has some information, i don’t know anything specific other than seeing first hand irrigation ditches in the sacramento valley
- blooalien 5y ago
  > "In general just because you own land a river runs through doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want to the river." Indeed there have been more than a few disputes, incidents, and court cases throughout history leading up to the current rules and agreements surrounding the various ways it's often handled nowadays. One must have consideration for "downstream neighbors". Easy way to spark an incident is doing something "untoward" or inconsiderate with the water upstream of a neighbor.
- pyuser583 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure you never own the river.
TigeriusKirk 5y ago
Man-made irrigation channels run through the farms. It can be as simple as opening a gate on the channel to let the water into the fields.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Something to be aware of is a lot of farms have have these canals, but they're often attached to a managed water system (usually called irrigation districts). This is distinct from what the article is talking about. Those are riparian water rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riparian_water_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riparian_water_rights
mistrial9 5y ago
California Agricultural Products summary report from 2016 weighs in at about 1000 pages. Farmers, crop-types (and their water districts), use patterns vary dramatically. Depending on conditions and the politics of the time, various sections of the Central Valley and particular landowners get increased scrutiny. Needless to say, any walking human has an opinion on water use, and the opinions are sometimes vocal. Every CA commercial operation has passed some kind of challenge to remain open today, for decades. The total dollar volumes of some of the crops may surprise the first-time reader. For example, the famous California wine industry is not anywhere near the most valuable total value crop, and yes they use water. The Pacific Institute is a commonly cited reference center for water issues in the US West https://pacinst.org https://pacinst.org the US Global Change research project has some detail about the situation https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/chapter/10/ https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/chapter/10/
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > The total dollar volumes of some of the crops may surprise the first-time reader. Doing a quick search: 1. Dairy (milk and cream) $6.56B 2. Grapes $5.79B 3. Almonds $5.60 4. Cannabis (legal sales) $3.1 5. Strawberries $3.1 6. Cattle and Calves $2.63 7. Lettuce $2.51 8. Walnuts $1.59 9. Tomatoes $1.05 10. Pistachios $1.01 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_California However agriculture in general makes up less than 2% of GDP: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California#Sectors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California#Sectors While using 39% of the water: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California#Uses_of_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California#Uses_of_wa... From a strictly utilitarian perspective, it may not be worth the effort to support agriculture. Or at the very least, if you're going to triage usage, it may have to be the first thing to be cut back on during dry spells.
  - Cuuugi 5y ago
    Your argument doesn't factor in that people need to eat, and they well, are making food.
deb89434 5y ago
> Could someone chime in with how these farmers physically get this water? on my grandparents ranch they dig a hole in the river from which they pump the water. > Do they own the land the steam is on or does the government own the streams and provide permits for access? Do they own the land the steam is on or does the government own the streams and provide permits for access? they own the land on either side of the river and have water rights to the river (or at very least they have taking water from the stream for over 100 years ... it's an old family farm). though apparently fish supersede their water rights. > Is it generally the farmers themselves doing this or is there some middleman (public/private?) water distributor? no middle man
- HappyDreamer 5y ago
  > they dig a hole in the river Maybe a silly question, but why did they dig a hole in the river? Wasn't there water there already, at that time? Or maybe the river is dried up in the summer, and they dig a hole (dig? drilled?) to access water in the ground below? > though apparently fish supersede their water rights I'm curious about what your grandparents think about the water restrictions (if you happen to know, and if I may ask)
  - sparky_z 5y ago
    I assumed they meant that they dug a hole in the river to create a tunnel/pipe that conveys the water out of the river and into their irrigation system.
    - simfree 5y ago
      They could also have dug a hole adjacent the river to take advantge of the filtering properties of the soil (gravel, sand, clay or whatever it is along this river), reducing algae, contaminants and eliminating fish from the water for free.
jeffbee 5y ago
This article is about farms that take directly out of streams, with siphons and diversion dams. However, that is a minor component of how California farms get their water. Most of them are getting it from pumping out of aquifers or from the giant aqueducts of the State Water Project and the Central Valley Project (weirdly, not the same thing). As the article itself says: "Most farmers who rely on the State Water Project or the federal Central Valley Project are already struggling with dramatically reduced allocations. The proposed order released Friday covers those thousands of farmers with direct legal rights to pull water out of the rivers."
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

colechristensen 5y ago

Pipes and ditches, often agreements or easements with neighbors. In general just because you own land a river runs through doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want to the river. Maybe the university of california has some information, i don’t know anything specific other than seeing first hand irrigation ditches in the sacramento valley

blooalien 5y ago
> "In general just because you own land a river runs through doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want to the river." Indeed there have been more than a few disputes, incidents, and court cases throughout history leading up to the current rules and agreements surrounding the various ways it's often handled nowadays. One must have consideration for "downstream neighbors". Easy way to spark an incident is doing something "untoward" or inconsiderate with the water upstream of a neighbor.
pyuser583 5y ago
I’m pretty sure you never own the river.

TigeriusKirk 5y ago

Man-made irrigation channels run through the farms. It can be as simple as opening a gate on the channel to let the water into the fields.

dehrmann 5y ago
Something to be aware of is a lot of farms have have these canals, but they're often attached to a managed water system (usually called irrigation districts). This is distinct from what the article is talking about. Those are riparian water rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riparian_water_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riparian_water_rights

mistrial9 5y ago

California Agricultural Products summary report from 2016 weighs in at about 1000 pages. Farmers, crop-types (and their water districts), use patterns vary dramatically. Depending on conditions and the politics of the time, various sections of the Central Valley and particular landowners get increased scrutiny. Needless to say, any walking human has an opinion on water use, and the opinions are sometimes vocal. Every CA commercial operation has passed some kind of challenge to remain open today, for decades. The total dollar volumes of some of the crops may surprise the first-time reader. For example, the famous California wine industry is not anywhere near the most valuable total value crop, and yes they use water. The Pacific Institute is a commonly cited reference center for water issues in the US West https://pacinst.org https://pacinst.org the US Global Change research project has some detail about the situation https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/chapter/10/ https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/chapter/10/

throw0101a 5y ago
> The total dollar volumes of some of the crops may surprise the first-time reader. Doing a quick search: 1. Dairy (milk and cream) $6.56B 2. Grapes $5.79B 3. Almonds $5.60 4. Cannabis (legal sales) $3.1 5. Strawberries $3.1 6. Cattle and Calves $2.63 7. Lettuce $2.51 8. Walnuts $1.59 9. Tomatoes $1.05 10. Pistachios $1.01 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_California However agriculture in general makes up less than 2% of GDP: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California#Sectors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California#Sectors While using 39% of the water: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California#Uses_of_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California#Uses_of_wa... From a strictly utilitarian perspective, it may not be worth the effort to support agriculture. Or at the very least, if you're going to triage usage, it may have to be the first thing to be cut back on during dry spells.
- Cuuugi 5y ago
  Your argument doesn't factor in that people need to eat, and they well, are making food.

deb89434 5y ago

> Could someone chime in with how these farmers physically get this water? on my grandparents ranch they dig a hole in the river from which they pump the water. > Do they own the land the steam is on or does the government own the streams and provide permits for access? Do they own the land the steam is on or does the government own the streams and provide permits for access? they own the land on either side of the river and have water rights to the river (or at very least they have taking water from the stream for over 100 years ... it's an old family farm). though apparently fish supersede their water rights. > Is it generally the farmers themselves doing this or is there some middleman (public/private?) water distributor? no middle man

HappyDreamer 5y ago
> they dig a hole in the river Maybe a silly question, but why did they dig a hole in the river? Wasn't there water there already, at that time? Or maybe the river is dried up in the summer, and they dig a hole (dig? drilled?) to access water in the ground below? > though apparently fish supersede their water rights I'm curious about what your grandparents think about the water restrictions (if you happen to know, and if I may ask)
- sparky_z 5y ago
  I assumed they meant that they dug a hole in the river to create a tunnel/pipe that conveys the water out of the river and into their irrigation system.
  - simfree 5y ago
    They could also have dug a hole adjacent the river to take advantge of the filtering properties of the soil (gravel, sand, clay or whatever it is along this river), reducing algae, contaminants and eliminating fish from the water for free.

jeffbee 5y ago

This article is about farms that take directly out of streams, with siphons and diversion dams. However, that is a minor component of how California farms get their water. Most of them are getting it from pumping out of aquifers or from the giant aqueducts of the State Water Project and the Central Valley Project (weirdly, not the same thing). As the article itself says: "Most farmers who rely on the State Water Project or the federal Central Valley Project are already struggling with dramatically reduced allocations. The proposed order released Friday covers those thousands of farmers with direct legal rights to pull water out of the rivers."

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]