7 ms·

Last I heard, they had around 10M users. Since they employ the, what I would consider, dark pattern of heavily encouraging folks to upload their contact list, t

Last I heard, they had around 10M users. Since they employ the, what I would consider, dark pattern of heavily encouraging folks to upload their contact list, that comes out to an average of 380 people per person. Given the Clubhouse user base demographics, I find this at least plausible.

acid__ 5y ago
That would only be true if it were 380 _unique_ contacts per person. Surely there is significant overlap from user to user.
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  See my reply to sibling comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949879
whatch 5y ago
Shouldn't it be 380 distinct people?
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  Not necessarily. Do we know every single number in the 3.8B is unique? I’ve seen zero proof of that, but maybe I missed it.
  - sellyme 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that would qualify as the number being "made up". If anyone disagrees, I'm happy to sell my database of 100B valid phone numbers.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      > I'm pretty sure that would qualify as the number being "made up". Not necessarily. Let me give you an example, if there’s other metadata included with a specific contact list entry, it would be valuable to have duplicate numbers, as that extra metadata could then be leveraged potentially.
jimkleiber 5y ago
I'd say it's even more of a dark pattern than that. They didn't encourage me to "upload my contact list" but rather "give access to my contacts" (or something like that) Perhaps the difference is trivial in how it's coded yet even though I've removed their access to my contacts, they still have my contacts. I think they should have to delete them whenever I remove their access, or not even upload them in the first place but just read them when necessary. Also, some apps seem to do this with photos, asking for access, does anyone know if these apps also upload all of one's photos once the user grants permission on iOS?
- d110af5ccf 5y ago
  > does anyone know if these apps also upload all of one's photos once the user grants permission on iOS That would eat up a lot of bandwidth. I suspect someone would notice it. An app could extract a lot of information from the metadata though, assuming it had access (I'm not sure how permissions on iOS work currently). It could also potentially run facial recognition algorithms locally (not sure how well that would work in practice though).
  - jimkleiber 5y ago
    I really like that point about the bandwidth and also about the metadata and facial recognition. I guess I just wish we had more insight into what info companies take and how, permissions on iOS and Android seem to be getting more granular and yet still seem quite broad to me.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      I’m particularly fond of iOS’s new “selected photos only” setting, but apps really don’t support it well in general (so I chose not to use them anymore). Instagram used to support it decently well, but in a recent update they removed the “select more” button and my usage of Instagram has dropped dropped dramatically since.
      - jimkleiber 5y ago

acid__ 5y ago

That would only be true if it were 380 _unique_ contacts per person. Surely there is significant overlap from user to user.

jsjohnst 5y ago
See my reply to sibling comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949879

whatch 5y ago

Shouldn't it be 380 distinct people?

jsjohnst 5y ago
Not necessarily. Do we know every single number in the 3.8B is unique? I’ve seen zero proof of that, but maybe I missed it.
- sellyme 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure that would qualify as the number being "made up". If anyone disagrees, I'm happy to sell my database of 100B valid phone numbers.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    > I'm pretty sure that would qualify as the number being "made up". Not necessarily. Let me give you an example, if there’s other metadata included with a specific contact list entry, it would be valuable to have duplicate numbers, as that extra metadata could then be leveraged potentially.

jimkleiber 5y ago

I'd say it's even more of a dark pattern than that. They didn't encourage me to "upload my contact list" but rather "give access to my contacts" (or something like that) Perhaps the difference is trivial in how it's coded yet even though I've removed their access to my contacts, they still have my contacts. I think they should have to delete them whenever I remove their access, or not even upload them in the first place but just read them when necessary. Also, some apps seem to do this with photos, asking for access, does anyone know if these apps also upload all of one's photos once the user grants permission on iOS?

d110af5ccf 5y ago
> does anyone know if these apps also upload all of one's photos once the user grants permission on iOS That would eat up a lot of bandwidth. I suspect someone would notice it. An app could extract a lot of information from the metadata though, assuming it had access (I'm not sure how permissions on iOS work currently). It could also potentially run facial recognition algorithms locally (not sure how well that would work in practice though).
- jimkleiber 5y ago
  I really like that point about the bandwidth and also about the metadata and facial recognition. I guess I just wish we had more insight into what info companies take and how, permissions on iOS and Android seem to be getting more granular and yet still seem quite broad to me.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    I’m particularly fond of iOS’s new “selected photos only” setting, but apps really don’t support it well in general (so I chose not to use them anymore). Instagram used to support it decently well, but in a recent update they removed the “select more” button and my usage of Instagram has dropped dropped dramatically since.
    - jimkleiber 5y ago