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That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I ha

by ianai 5y ago

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

balfirevic 5y ago
> or never How does that work?
- ohazi 5y ago
  Poorly
  - balfirevic 5y ago
    Thank goodness!
Dumblydorr 5y ago
How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets on this app. Some good that'll do. When I have kids, it'll be "dad, why can't we join the VR orgy party? It's not real sex!"
- iamstupidsimple 5y ago
  > How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? Having been on both sides of this, as a teenager and having saw my siblings go through it, I don't envy you either. But I can talk about my personal experiences. I was very introverted as a kid, and tools like Facebook gave me a bit of social autonomy and confidence, and it absolutely strengthened my in-person relationships. I know others that feel the same. Not being contactable via the internet definitely can cause social ostracism, but a reasonable middle ground for me is something like Discord or WhatsApp, which is semi private and avoids the toxicity of The Feed.
- austincheney 5y ago
  > How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I would be an adult and remind them that they are children and can fuck off. When they completely lose their minds about this smash the shit out their phone. It’s not actually their phone. It’s mine. As the adult I pay those bills. If that creates big tears they can pay for their own damn phone. I am a parent of teenagers and have gone through this.
  - ramphastidae 5y ago
    Speaking from experience, if you keep that up, your kids will break contact with you as soon as they are old enough. If you decide that your parenting style is “fuck off,” you can expect the same attitude from your kids towards you when you are older. Hope you are ready to die on this hill.
    - austincheney 5y ago
      If that’s what happens only because you set boundaries around social media there are far deeper failures already in place.
      - anonymousab 5y ago
        > only because you set boundaries around social media Social media is social interaction. It's an inextricable part, if not the centerpiece for many kids these days. This is the modern equivalent of saying "no friends allowed"/"you can only see and talk to your friends for a couple of minutes a day", as hyperbolic as that may seem. Extreme rejection and rebellion is a logical outcome from that.
        austincheney 5y ago
        It’s not the centerpiece if you are doing your job as a parent. > Extreme rejection and rebellion is a logical outcome from that. If that’s the result then you are failing as a parent.
- MrFoof 5y ago
  From what I hear from everyone I know with kids... >How would you handle it if they bought their own 2nd cellphone, and only used the cellular network to escape your control. That's what really happens. Lock your kid down? They'll get right around it by going outside of the infrastructure and devices you supply. They'll just carry two phones around, and you just won't be wiser about the second one unless you catch them with it.
  - retrac 5y ago
    Yes. Our collective age is showing, perhaps. One can buy a new phone or tablet, with a month's data plan, with a few days' lunch money now, in some places. This translates into there being no practical way to keep a dedicated teenager off the Internet, unless they're literally never allowed out of the house and monitored 24/7. (And that might well be child abuse without very good cause! And you've probably already lost if you're at that point, anyway.) It won't work with every child... but I am a big believer in fostering the means for a child to make the right decisions for themselves. Yes, the social pressures are immense. But you know, I do remember following my dad's advice to get up a few times an hour, exercise and stretch, when playing video games. Older children worry about their health, and try to make good decisions within their abilities, just like adults do. Perhaps we can't really protect them from this per se, and can only try to help the next generation save themselves, from this mess we've made for them.
    - Jcowell 5y ago
      Yup the solution isn’t always about restricting but educating. Teach them the Ill effects in a respectable matter and deal with the consequences in a respectable manner. Parents job isn’t to not make kids mess up but allow environment for them to fail and learn from those failures and to reduce (not eliminate) the fallout.
      - mixmastamyk 5y ago
        Nowadays, corporate and govt surveillance is pervasive. Consequences cannot be "dealt with" after the fact, and deletion is no longer an option. Mistakes are a part of your "permanent record," (with a nod to Jane's Addiction). It's not like the old days when you knew they'd find a Playboy magazine eventually.
- longhairedhippy 5y ago
  This is totally anecdotal but I have 3 teenagers and I think the most important thing is keeping up with what's going on in their lives and taking an active interest in making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up. Teens are just people with very little experience dealing with their seemingly huge amounts of emotion so parents should help them process. We can't protect them from everything so trying to just hide the bad stuff is not going to work, folks will grow up without the tools to deal with it when things go wrong. Keeping up with what's going on and jumping in when they get stuck, either because the situation is overwhelming, they don't have the proper tools, or they're just putting too much weight on their shoulders, is super valuable. Unfortunately, with all of the pressures of daily life, combined with the struggles of folks in lower socio-economic environments, lots of people do not have enough time or surplus emotional budget to give it the proper attention, they're just trying to survive.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    My parents were liberal in allowing tech but had some practical limits which I think helped. (Dial up cost us $.25 per call.) Time limits and discussing their interests seem like a totally reasonable alternative to complete abstinence.
  - enriquto 5y ago
    > making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up This is a terrifyingly difficult prospect. I guess almost nobody in the world is so well equipped for that. There are really hard problems that nobody can "deal" with alone, like the death of loved ones, or social ostracism from your whole peer group. No matter how "well equipped" you are, some things may be simply overwhelming. EDIT: I learned this the hard way. I am well off economically and emotionally, always had a cushioned life, I became the father in a happy family, really felt totally invincible. But something happened at the age of 41 (sudden death of my dad, in very bad circumstances) that I was not prepared at all to deal with. I used to mock people who couldn't cope with their own problems, but as an adult I learned that some problems may be really too big to rationalize off. I guess many teenagers find themselves in such difficult situations that cannot really solve (like being a victim of overwhelming social pressure), regardless of how loving and close their parents are.
- causality0 5y ago
  all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? Is that a thing? I have plenty of friends that use Instagram but they don't look at each other's stuff or talk about what someone they know in real life posted. If they care about people they know seeing it they put it on Facebook or in the group chat.
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    Are you asking if social ostracism amongst teenagers is a thing?
    - bart_spoon 5y ago
      They are clearly asking if social ostracism due to not using a social media platform is a thing.
      - tailspin2019 5y ago
        I suppose my comment was a bit snarky because (in my view) social ostracism amongst teenagers is very definitely and obviously a thing for _almost every reason under the sun_ for some groups of kids - it's the nature of being a teenager. Emotional intelligence is not highly developed at that age, so social bubbles/cliques can be (but definitely not always) a bit fickle/fragile. Hence the topic of this article. Being prevented from using a social media platform at that age, that one's peers are all on would definitely lead to possible social issues in some groups. I'm assuming the commenter I was responding to is not a teenager (given mention of Facebook being their peer group's primary social media platform), so their experience of their peers being able to use social media in a more healthy manner is unlikely to map to the teenage experience. Some assumptions on my part. Not the most constructive "best possible interpretation" response, I'll admit. I'm also not expressing a strong opinion that kids should be "allowed" or "blocked" from usage of social media. It's a very tricky issue but absolutely not one to be dismissive of.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Because you're not a parent, here's a tip: kids are tougher than you give them credit for and they're tougher than they understand. Your responsibility as a parent is to figure out how to toughen them up without crushing their self-esteem. Instagram is not an essential part of any of this. If the worst thing your kid can say about you when they hit adulthood is "daddy didn't let me on Instagram," then you did a phenomenal job.
  - lupire 5y ago
    You're missing the point. It's not "Dad didn't let me on Instagram". It's "Dad didn't let me have shared experiences to build relationships with my peers."
    - austincheney 5y ago
      Dad didn’t let me get drunk and do drugs. It’s dad allowed me to explore my emotions and expand my horizons. If you want children to have valid and engaging social experiences then encourage them to do so without a screen.
    - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
      If a shared experience is toxic to the mental well-being of my kids, then they're not going to share in the experience. I'd rather my kid hate me for a couple years as a teenager for not letting them engage in harmful things than never getting out of their teenage years.
      - KptMarchewa 5y ago
        Oh, they'll going to hate you a lot longer than that.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        MisterBastahrd 5y ago
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  I think a friend of mine handled it well. He nurtured a trust based relationship with his children, trust was highly valued and it gave his children a lot of free way but he also set up clear boundaries. They could do try do things behind his back, they had full window to do it but trust was so ingrained that I don't recall him ever finding out huge problems. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't plead and beg and try to cajole to get something. At some point he would explain the rationale behind a decision but in the the end when push came to shove if a "no" was spoken it was a final "no". He isn't forced to justify his decisions and it's accepted as is and I think somehow trust plays a part here. Because his children knows that it's not the thing to get (smartphone, movie time, etc.) that is at play but trust (edit_begin) ultimately trust and the only way to get that thing would be by breaking trust (edit_end). They have to keep their parent's trust and parents know they can only get that trust by actually trusting. So, it works out. YMMV.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets on this app. Contra: whether they're online or not, conversations about them will take place. And if they're not online then how can they defend themselves, either as an individual or by herding their friends in their defence as well.
- turtlebits 5y ago
  What happened to the days where you earned the privilege to have/do things? That there are consequence with breaking the rules? Show them how to use it responsibly, the downsides that can come out of it. Start with limits and let them earn the right to have more access. When you kid starts riding a bike you don't let them ride everywhere, you let them stay on the block, and if they understand safety and are being safe, you slowly expand the range they can go.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
throwawayboise 5y ago
If you had kids, you would know that you can control what they do up until about middle-school age, at which point your ability to control them begins to decline. They're starting to grow into independent adults.
- voisin 5y ago
  Best not to try to control them before that age either. Best to try to develop a relationship where you can express your concerns in a straightforward manner and hear their concerns and get their buy-in on some solution that safeguards them from your concerns but let’s them have some semblance of what they want.
  - ianai 5y ago
    Agree. Those tend to be the most functional relationships/young adults that I remember interacting with in the past. Social media though is clearly a thing to approach carefully. I personally just block it all at the firewall and watch for the day society gets through this phase.
    - patrickdavey 5y ago
      Terribly basic question, but, can they not just use a VPN to tunnel through? I've heard kids are doing that kind of thing now.
      - dogman144 5y ago
        It all has to pass through a router at some point, and the VPN will have a specific signature especially around connecting to the VPN server itself. Might have to put your threat hunting hat on to find it though. If my kid really does start getting clever there, then we start talking about CTFs and the wonderful world and compensation of Infosec. If cellular, I’d roll with family iPhones and app restrictions on the kids’ phones, plus a lot of careful messaging.
- gijsnijholt1980 5y ago
pengaru 5y ago
> I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data. I can't imagine how impossible it would be to shield them from all these toxic technologies like smartphones and social media while still being in the continental USA. Even if you managed it, they'd be in constant exposure on the periphery, and incessantly reminded of their otherness vs. the masses. It just doesn't seem healthy to me. If I had kids today, I'd buy an undeveloped island somewhere like coastal Panama and raise an army of them off-grid while homesteading on it. But I've opted to just go childless instead. Humans are like a wildfire raging across the planet, it doesn't need me to throw more fuel on it...
klyrs 5y ago
Just like nobody lets their kids do drugs or have sex? (Do you remember being a teen?) Kids are sneaky and resourceful. Harm-reduction works better than abolition; authoritarian parenting erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your kids' behavior.
- danuker 5y ago
  > authoritarian parenting erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your kids' behavior. authoritarian governing erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your citizens' behavior.
tessierashpool 5y ago
OK, but if you're stuck at home, you're probably using Instagram more, not less. And when you're back in school, your Instagram usage probably declines. Very unlikely that Instagram has a net psychological benefit, but being in school seems to have had a more direct effect.
chovybizzass 5y ago
You won't be able to shelter them from their friends who will all get phones and use tiktok or whatever comes next. When I finally broke down and got my daughters cell phones, they were addicted. I wanted to take it away but I coudln't without causing a lot of bad things.
xwdv 5y ago
This is the wrong approach. You must realize that every generation of youth from here on will face some unique challenges of their own, and the only way to overcome them is to help them tackle it head on and not let them become defeated by it. Attempting to time travel back to some simpler time is not an option. The simpler time is gone, and will never return. This is their life now.
- lupire 5y ago
  Do your kids do meth? It's very popular now.
  - l33t2328 5y ago
    This seems disingenuous. Meth is extremely unpopular in the 13-18 demographic, and in particular it’s far less popular than social media.
neatze 5y ago
Seems like instead of educating your kids, you prefer to control them.
tzs 5y ago
South Park, season 3 episode 11, "Chinpokomon", covered how this really works: Kyle: [enters] Mom, Dad, can I have money to buy Chinpokomon? Sheila: What's a Chinpokomon? Kyle: I'm not sure. Sheila: Well, why do you need one? Kyle: I don't know. Sheila: ...Well then, the answer is no, Kyle. You just got money to buy your Cyborg Bill doll. Kyle: Yeah, but Cyborg Bill is totally gay now. Please Mom? Everybody else has Chinpokomon. Gerald: Well, Kyle, that's not a reason to buy something. Ike: Neah Kyle doh. Gerald: You see, son, fads come and go. And this "Chin-po-ko-mon" is obviously nothing more than a fad. You don't have to be a part of it. In fact, you can make an even stronger statement by saying to your peers, "I'm not going to be a part of this fad, because I'm an individual." Do you understand? Kyle: Yes. Yes, I do, Dad. Now let me tell you how it works in the real world. In the real world, I can either get a Chinpokomon, or I can be the only kid without one, which singles me out, and causes the other kids to make fun of me and kick my ass. Gerald: Hm... Good point; here's $10. [hands it to him] Kyle: Thanks. Gerald: Wait, here's 20. Get one for your brother, too. [Kyle receives the other $10 and walks out] Ike: Hey, Chih-paw-ko.
- krisoft 5y ago
  When I was young I really, really wanted a tamagotchi. My parents wouldn't buy one for me with the same reasoning as in that South Park episode. So I wrote one for myself in Quick Basic. Several years later I become a professional software developer. :D I guess thanks mum thanks dad. :) (Because I never really played with a real tamagotchi I had to figure out for myself what a tamagotchi should do. So mine was a pig. And I had this "game design" problem that every time you feed it it got just a bit heavier. And of course unbounded weight gain is not good, so I added a menu point to slaughter the pig. I even went to the library to research how many kgs of sausage and bacon it should generate per 100kg of raw pig. Turns out real tamagotchis don't work this way.)
  - sp332 5y ago
    You might be interested in "Many Tamogatchis were harmed in the making of this presentation" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4PkcZScBV8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4PkcZScBV8 And more the next year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTgDfB0cao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTgDfB0cao
l33t2328 5y ago
> I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never Social media is damaging, but not having social media is also damaging since you may as well be the kid coming to school in a potato sack

by ianai 5y ago

balfirevic 5y ago

> or never How does that work?

ohazi 5y ago
Poorly
- balfirevic 5y ago
  Thank goodness!

Dumblydorr 5y ago

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets on this app. Some good that'll do. When I have kids, it'll be "dad, why can't we join the VR orgy party? It's not real sex!"

iamstupidsimple 5y ago
> How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? Having been on both sides of this, as a teenager and having saw my siblings go through it, I don't envy you either. But I can talk about my personal experiences. I was very introverted as a kid, and tools like Facebook gave me a bit of social autonomy and confidence, and it absolutely strengthened my in-person relationships. I know others that feel the same. Not being contactable via the internet definitely can cause social ostracism, but a reasonable middle ground for me is something like Discord or WhatsApp, which is semi private and avoids the toxicity of The Feed.
austincheney 5y ago
> How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I would be an adult and remind them that they are children and can fuck off. When they completely lose their minds about this smash the shit out their phone. It’s not actually their phone. It’s mine. As the adult I pay those bills. If that creates big tears they can pay for their own damn phone. I am a parent of teenagers and have gone through this.
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  Speaking from experience, if you keep that up, your kids will break contact with you as soon as they are old enough. If you decide that your parenting style is “fuck off,” you can expect the same attitude from your kids towards you when you are older. Hope you are ready to die on this hill.
  - austincheney 5y ago
    If that’s what happens only because you set boundaries around social media there are far deeper failures already in place.
    - anonymousab 5y ago
      > only because you set boundaries around social media Social media is social interaction. It's an inextricable part, if not the centerpiece for many kids these days. This is the modern equivalent of saying "no friends allowed"/"you can only see and talk to your friends for a couple of minutes a day", as hyperbolic as that may seem. Extreme rejection and rebellion is a logical outcome from that.
      - austincheney 5y ago
        It’s not the centerpiece if you are doing your job as a parent. > Extreme rejection and rebellion is a logical outcome from that. If that’s the result then you are failing as a parent.
MrFoof 5y ago
From what I hear from everyone I know with kids... >How would you handle it if they bought their own 2nd cellphone, and only used the cellular network to escape your control. That's what really happens. Lock your kid down? They'll get right around it by going outside of the infrastructure and devices you supply. They'll just carry two phones around, and you just won't be wiser about the second one unless you catch them with it.
- retrac 5y ago
  Yes. Our collective age is showing, perhaps. One can buy a new phone or tablet, with a month's data plan, with a few days' lunch money now, in some places. This translates into there being no practical way to keep a dedicated teenager off the Internet, unless they're literally never allowed out of the house and monitored 24/7. (And that might well be child abuse without very good cause! And you've probably already lost if you're at that point, anyway.) It won't work with every child... but I am a big believer in fostering the means for a child to make the right decisions for themselves. Yes, the social pressures are immense. But you know, I do remember following my dad's advice to get up a few times an hour, exercise and stretch, when playing video games. Older children worry about their health, and try to make good decisions within their abilities, just like adults do. Perhaps we can't really protect them from this per se, and can only try to help the next generation save themselves, from this mess we've made for them.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    Yup the solution isn’t always about restricting but educating. Teach them the Ill effects in a respectable matter and deal with the consequences in a respectable manner. Parents job isn’t to not make kids mess up but allow environment for them to fail and learn from those failures and to reduce (not eliminate) the fallout.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      Nowadays, corporate and govt surveillance is pervasive. Consequences cannot be "dealt with" after the fact, and deletion is no longer an option. Mistakes are a part of your "permanent record," (with a nod to Jane's Addiction). It's not like the old days when you knew they'd find a Playboy magazine eventually.
longhairedhippy 5y ago
This is totally anecdotal but I have 3 teenagers and I think the most important thing is keeping up with what's going on in their lives and taking an active interest in making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up. Teens are just people with very little experience dealing with their seemingly huge amounts of emotion so parents should help them process. We can't protect them from everything so trying to just hide the bad stuff is not going to work, folks will grow up without the tools to deal with it when things go wrong. Keeping up with what's going on and jumping in when they get stuck, either because the situation is overwhelming, they don't have the proper tools, or they're just putting too much weight on their shoulders, is super valuable. Unfortunately, with all of the pressures of daily life, combined with the struggles of folks in lower socio-economic environments, lots of people do not have enough time or surplus emotional budget to give it the proper attention, they're just trying to survive.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  My parents were liberal in allowing tech but had some practical limits which I think helped. (Dial up cost us $.25 per call.) Time limits and discussing their interests seem like a totally reasonable alternative to complete abstinence.
- enriquto 5y ago
  > making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up This is a terrifyingly difficult prospect. I guess almost nobody in the world is so well equipped for that. There are really hard problems that nobody can "deal" with alone, like the death of loved ones, or social ostracism from your whole peer group. No matter how "well equipped" you are, some things may be simply overwhelming. EDIT: I learned this the hard way. I am well off economically and emotionally, always had a cushioned life, I became the father in a happy family, really felt totally invincible. But something happened at the age of 41 (sudden death of my dad, in very bad circumstances) that I was not prepared at all to deal with. I used to mock people who couldn't cope with their own problems, but as an adult I learned that some problems may be really too big to rationalize off. I guess many teenagers find themselves in such difficult situations that cannot really solve (like being a victim of overwhelming social pressure), regardless of how loving and close their parents are.
causality0 5y ago
all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? Is that a thing? I have plenty of friends that use Instagram but they don't look at each other's stuff or talk about what someone they know in real life posted. If they care about people they know seeing it they put it on Facebook or in the group chat.
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  Are you asking if social ostracism amongst teenagers is a thing?
  - bart_spoon 5y ago
    They are clearly asking if social ostracism due to not using a social media platform is a thing.
    - tailspin2019 5y ago
      I suppose my comment was a bit snarky because (in my view) social ostracism amongst teenagers is very definitely and obviously a thing for _almost every reason under the sun_ for some groups of kids - it's the nature of being a teenager. Emotional intelligence is not highly developed at that age, so social bubbles/cliques can be (but definitely not always) a bit fickle/fragile. Hence the topic of this article. Being prevented from using a social media platform at that age, that one's peers are all on would definitely lead to possible social issues in some groups. I'm assuming the commenter I was responding to is not a teenager (given mention of Facebook being their peer group's primary social media platform), so their experience of their peers being able to use social media in a more healthy manner is unlikely to map to the teenage experience. Some assumptions on my part. Not the most constructive "best possible interpretation" response, I'll admit. I'm also not expressing a strong opinion that kids should be "allowed" or "blocked" from usage of social media. It's a very tricky issue but absolutely not one to be dismissive of.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Because you're not a parent, here's a tip: kids are tougher than you give them credit for and they're tougher than they understand. Your responsibility as a parent is to figure out how to toughen them up without crushing their self-esteem. Instagram is not an essential part of any of this. If the worst thing your kid can say about you when they hit adulthood is "daddy didn't let me on Instagram," then you did a phenomenal job.
- lupire 5y ago
  You're missing the point. It's not "Dad didn't let me on Instagram". It's "Dad didn't let me have shared experiences to build relationships with my peers."
  - austincheney 5y ago
    Dad didn’t let me get drunk and do drugs. It’s dad allowed me to explore my emotions and expand my horizons. If you want children to have valid and engaging social experiences then encourage them to do so without a screen.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    If a shared experience is toxic to the mental well-being of my kids, then they're not going to share in the experience. I'd rather my kid hate me for a couple years as a teenager for not letting them engage in harmful things than never getting out of their teenage years.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      Oh, they'll going to hate you a lot longer than that.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
johnchristopher 5y ago
I think a friend of mine handled it well. He nurtured a trust based relationship with his children, trust was highly valued and it gave his children a lot of free way but he also set up clear boundaries. They could do try do things behind his back, they had full window to do it but trust was so ingrained that I don't recall him ever finding out huge problems. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't plead and beg and try to cajole to get something. At some point he would explain the rationale behind a decision but in the the end when push came to shove if a "no" was spoken it was a final "no". He isn't forced to justify his decisions and it's accepted as is and I think somehow trust plays a part here. Because his children knows that it's not the thing to get (smartphone, movie time, etc.) that is at play but trust (edit_begin) ultimately trust and the only way to get that thing would be by breaking trust (edit_end). They have to keep their parent's trust and parents know they can only get that trust by actually trusting. So, it works out. YMMV.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets on this app. Contra: whether they're online or not, conversations about them will take place. And if they're not online then how can they defend themselves, either as an individual or by herding their friends in their defence as well.
turtlebits 5y ago
What happened to the days where you earned the privilege to have/do things? That there are consequence with breaking the rules? Show them how to use it responsibly, the downsides that can come out of it. Start with limits and let them earn the right to have more access. When you kid starts riding a bike you don't let them ride everywhere, you let them stay on the block, and if they understand safety and are being safe, you slowly expand the range they can go.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

throwawayboise 5y ago

If you had kids, you would know that you can control what they do up until about middle-school age, at which point your ability to control them begins to decline. They're starting to grow into independent adults.

voisin 5y ago
Best not to try to control them before that age either. Best to try to develop a relationship where you can express your concerns in a straightforward manner and hear their concerns and get their buy-in on some solution that safeguards them from your concerns but let’s them have some semblance of what they want.
- ianai 5y ago
  Agree. Those tend to be the most functional relationships/young adults that I remember interacting with in the past. Social media though is clearly a thing to approach carefully. I personally just block it all at the firewall and watch for the day society gets through this phase.
  - patrickdavey 5y ago
    Terribly basic question, but, can they not just use a VPN to tunnel through? I've heard kids are doing that kind of thing now.
    - dogman144 5y ago
      It all has to pass through a router at some point, and the VPN will have a specific signature especially around connecting to the VPN server itself. Might have to put your threat hunting hat on to find it though. If my kid really does start getting clever there, then we start talking about CTFs and the wonderful world and compensation of Infosec. If cellular, I’d roll with family iPhones and app restrictions on the kids’ phones, plus a lot of careful messaging.
gijsnijholt1980 5y ago

pengaru 5y ago

> I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data. I can't imagine how impossible it would be to shield them from all these toxic technologies like smartphones and social media while still being in the continental USA. Even if you managed it, they'd be in constant exposure on the periphery, and incessantly reminded of their otherness vs. the masses. It just doesn't seem healthy to me. If I had kids today, I'd buy an undeveloped island somewhere like coastal Panama and raise an army of them off-grid while homesteading on it. But I've opted to just go childless instead. Humans are like a wildfire raging across the planet, it doesn't need me to throw more fuel on it...

klyrs 5y ago

Just like nobody lets their kids do drugs or have sex? (Do you remember being a teen?) Kids are sneaky and resourceful. Harm-reduction works better than abolition; authoritarian parenting erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your kids' behavior.

danuker 5y ago
> authoritarian parenting erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your kids' behavior. authoritarian governing erodes the trust you need to effect durable change in your citizens' behavior.

tessierashpool 5y ago

OK, but if you're stuck at home, you're probably using Instagram more, not less. And when you're back in school, your Instagram usage probably declines. Very unlikely that Instagram has a net psychological benefit, but being in school seems to have had a more direct effect.

chovybizzass 5y ago

You won't be able to shelter them from their friends who will all get phones and use tiktok or whatever comes next. When I finally broke down and got my daughters cell phones, they were addicted. I wanted to take it away but I coudln't without causing a lot of bad things.

xwdv 5y ago

This is the wrong approach. You must realize that every generation of youth from here on will face some unique challenges of their own, and the only way to overcome them is to help them tackle it head on and not let them become defeated by it. Attempting to time travel back to some simpler time is not an option. The simpler time is gone, and will never return. This is their life now.

lupire 5y ago
Do your kids do meth? It's very popular now.
- l33t2328 5y ago
  This seems disingenuous. Meth is extremely unpopular in the 13-18 demographic, and in particular it’s far less popular than social media.

neatze 5y ago

Seems like instead of educating your kids, you prefer to control them.

tzs 5y ago

South Park, season 3 episode 11, "Chinpokomon", covered how this really works: Kyle: [enters] Mom, Dad, can I have money to buy Chinpokomon? Sheila: What's a Chinpokomon? Kyle: I'm not sure. Sheila: Well, why do you need one? Kyle: I don't know. Sheila: ...Well then, the answer is no, Kyle. You just got money to buy your Cyborg Bill doll. Kyle: Yeah, but Cyborg Bill is totally gay now. Please Mom? Everybody else has Chinpokomon. Gerald: Well, Kyle, that's not a reason to buy something. Ike: Neah Kyle doh. Gerald: You see, son, fads come and go. And this "Chin-po-ko-mon" is obviously nothing more than a fad. You don't have to be a part of it. In fact, you can make an even stronger statement by saying to your peers, "I'm not going to be a part of this fad, because I'm an individual." Do you understand? Kyle: Yes. Yes, I do, Dad. Now let me tell you how it works in the real world. In the real world, I can either get a Chinpokomon, or I can be the only kid without one, which singles me out, and causes the other kids to make fun of me and kick my ass. Gerald: Hm... Good point; here's $10. [hands it to him] Kyle: Thanks. Gerald: Wait, here's 20. Get one for your brother, too. [Kyle receives the other $10 and walks out] Ike: Hey, Chih-paw-ko.

krisoft 5y ago
When I was young I really, really wanted a tamagotchi. My parents wouldn't buy one for me with the same reasoning as in that South Park episode. So I wrote one for myself in Quick Basic. Several years later I become a professional software developer. :D I guess thanks mum thanks dad. :) (Because I never really played with a real tamagotchi I had to figure out for myself what a tamagotchi should do. So mine was a pig. And I had this "game design" problem that every time you feed it it got just a bit heavier. And of course unbounded weight gain is not good, so I added a menu point to slaughter the pig. I even went to the library to research how many kgs of sausage and bacon it should generate per 100kg of raw pig. Turns out real tamagotchis don't work this way.)
- sp332 5y ago
  You might be interested in "Many Tamogatchis were harmed in the making of this presentation" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4PkcZScBV8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4PkcZScBV8 And more the next year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTgDfB0cao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTgDfB0cao

l33t2328 5y ago

> I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never Social media is damaging, but not having social media is also damaging since you may as well be the kid coming to school in a potato sack