9 ms·

What’s the matter with airports? (2011)

56 points by NotSwift 5y ago

BlameKaneda 5y ago
> What do we do at airports? We kill time. And there are few better and more productive ways of killing time than logging on to the Web...It should be everywhere, and it should be free. As long as the airports continue to make a killing off of internet fees, I can't imagine this happening any time soon.
- tvst 5y ago
  Or perhaps the opposite could happen: as more and more people start carrying devices that have access to the internet via cellular connection, airports could start providing Wi-Fi for free, as they could use that for tracking, marketing, and other "fun" uses
  - rhino369 5y ago
    ORD and DCA have free wifi and they collect emails presumably for that marketing purpose.
  - Macha 5y ago
    I think it's roaming fees that really get airports able to charge for wifi. 4G on my phone is already way more reliable than any airport wifi, and since within the EU it doesn't cost anything to use my data allowance while roaming, I never use airport wifi in the EU, it's only in the US I use it because there I have to pay €10/gb in advance for roaming data allowances.
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      Get Google Fi via eSIM before you leave. I haven't tried, but seems possible. Wonder why there isn't more companies doing same minus Google weird UX and creepy tracking.
      - Mary-Jane 5y ago
        Google FI user. I can confirm it fantastic great for international travel.
- airstrike 5y ago
  Next time they can just bring a book... Somehow humanity has managed to kill time for millennia before ARPANET
  - wasmitnetzen 5y ago
    A book doesn't let me check if my flight is on time, check the weather at the destination, message anyone expecting me at the other end, ... There's a multitude of reasons to have a decent internet connection at an airport.
    - airstrike 5y ago
      Yes, but killing time is not one of them.
- grecy 5y ago
  What airport doesn't have free wifi? Of the dozens I've been to in the last 5 years they all did - even Bamako in Mali, Dar in Tanzania, Addis in Ethiopia, etc. etc.
  - flemhans 5y ago
    Agreed, I don't remember the last time payment was required. Some do try to harvest your email address and organs.
rzz3 5y ago
The author’s comment about men not being able to use big fluffy pillows is sad, IMO. Who the fuck would care what someone thought of them being a pillow to an airport, unless they were deeply insecure and needed validation from strangers. I’m bringing a big fluffy pillow next time I fly.
- thinkingemote 5y ago
  Seems like the authors comment worked in encouraging more men to take pillows on their flights!
  - rzz3 5y ago
    Yes! Lol
- MarkSweep 5y ago
  While we’re on the topic, I’d also recommend guys wear yoga leggings on planes. There is a reason you see so many women do so. They keep you legs warm enough and don’t get bunched up like jeans or slacks do. Just get some lululemon align leggings and maybe some basketball shorts to wear over if you are feeling modest and make sitting for 12 hours a little less uncomfortable.
rcarmo 5y ago
Douglas Adams said it best — “It can hardly be a coincidence that no language on earth has ever produced the expression, 'As pretty as an airport.’”
ghaff 5y ago
Picking out Boston to criticize transit options from airports seems an odd choice. The Silver Line is sort of a transit kludge (dedicated lane bus that, as noted, switches from electric to propane (?) at one point). And I guess the author is connecting from somewhere that requires changing lines. But you can literally see the airport from downtown and there is a transit option.
- reillyse 5y ago
  Yes but it’s so nice in other airports. Like most European airports have dedicated train stations in the basement. Not transit links or a bus going to another bus that you need to take a train to terminal z to get on, but an actual train station that has you straight away integrated with the rail network. Go down a couple of escalators and hop on a train to your destination. Easy.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It depends where you're going. The Silver Line stops at each terminal so there's very little walking required unlike some airports. And if you're going to the Seaport area or (near) the Financial District, there are no transfers required. And in the case of Boston connecting directly to the rail network as opposed to subway system wouldn't make a lot of sense. You're probably not talking Amtrak if you just flew in and the commuter rail probably doesn't make a lot of sense either.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      It doesn't make sense with the current state of US rail, but in Europe the equivalent of commuter rail (in terms of distance covered and speed) runs on a pretty decent schedule during daylight hours at a reasonable price, a far cry from premium US commuter rail that barely runs during the middle of the day. (They also generally run through the city center to the other side of the city, but the N-S tunnel is a whole nother can of worms.) Boston Logan is the regional international airport, and if the trains were frequent and fast enough there's no reason why one shouldn't theoretically be able to take the train from a suburb to the airport. You'd save enough money from the long-term parking alone.
pomian 5y ago
This is a great article. So much relevant commentary not just about airports, but also many facets of North American Life. One example: where are they local diners? Airports, truck stops, malls, and suburbia. We are losing local food with character and flavour, instead submitting to greasy salty national chain stores. Noise is another issue. Good read.
- pm90 5y ago
  > One example: where are they local diners? Austin actually does this. Salt Lick BBQ and a few other Austin restaurants have a presence in the airport.
  - jacobkg 5y ago
    My wife brought back a frozen brisket from the Austin airport to finish in the bbq at home. It was excellent
neither_color 5y ago
I'm not one of those people obsessed with shaming american infrastructure by using trains; I don't really care about trains. Instead I'll be the first to shame American airports. Many Asian airports truly put us to shame. Notably Changi, Incheon, Hong Kong, etc. Those airports are so delightful that pre-covid when I was flying I would deliberately choose tickets with a long layover just to relax in them.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Which major US airports do not have train or public transit to the city center? Chicago does for both Midway and O'Hare, I'm pretty sure NYC does, not sure about others (not much of a traveler).
  - swampthinker 5y ago
    JFK and EWR don't have direct connections to public transit, but instead offer a mediocre people mover to a nearby train station. LGA only has a bus.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - ssorallen 5y ago
    LaGuardia in NYC requires transferring to a bus for the final connection from the subway to the airport. It’s infuriatingly difficult to get right even after doing the route many times. I’d often call a Lyft/Uber at 10x the price of the subway+bus because the public transit route is that annoying to deal with.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      It’s a little better than it used to be with at least dedicated buses to Woodside and Jackson Heights instead of having to take some random local Queens bus. Still bad though, and Cuomo’s AirTrain route is beyond stupid. JFK’s story isn’t great, Jamaica and the LIRR aren’t designed for tourists, but it’s much better than LGA.
analog31 5y ago
>>> Of course, I am opposed to jet bridges on principle. I prefer the classic, drive-up airstairs. Some of the international stations I fly to still employ those old-timey stairs, and I always get a thrill from them. The stairs also have fewer failure modes.
- ghaff 5y ago
  They're also terrible for people with mobility issues and you're exposed to the elements.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    They're also impractical for larger planes — you'll only use stairs on an A320 or B737. I've disembarked from a B777 via stairs following an emergency landing. The stairs were narrower than the ones for a smaller aircraft, and much more wobbly. We were limited to 3 people at a time on them, so it was very slow. The 777's door is also considerably higher up, about 5m vs. about 2.5m. Size comparison: https://imgur.com/gallery/bxyI0Er https://imgur.com/gallery/bxyI0Er
- toast0 5y ago
  I love the stairs, and especially when they bring stairs to the front and the rear of the plane, but they're not great for people with mobility challenges. I guess dual jetbridges could be an option to speed boarding and deboarding, but I've never seen that happen.
  - mmcconnell1618 5y ago
    How about triple jet bridges for an A380? https://youtu.be/64JXmuYZ7pA?t=55 https://youtu.be/64JXmuYZ7pA?t=55
    - toast0 5y ago
      Yeah, but I'm probably never flying on one of those. Almost all my flights are on narrow body planes.
nickdothutton 5y ago
Incheon. I have flown many hundreds of times over my lifetime to most continents and this remains the best thought-out airport. I only need give 1 example. You can move from your seat on the plane, with your 4-wheeled cabin case, all the way through the entire airport to your taxi using no more than your pinky finger to push the case. There are no bumps, no stairs, no changes in elevation that require you lift the thing. A 90yr old could do it. This is no accident.
- thunderbong 5y ago
  The article rates Incheon airport at the top of the list.
  - csomar 5y ago
    The dangerous question is: Is it turning a profit (or at least breaking even?); or being supported by the government. Because the Asia economy flights are "dirt cheap".
    - b3morales 5y ago
      Does the airport individually need to make a profit if its effect on the region is net positive?
      - csomar 5y ago
        Sure not, but then it could be a door for corruption.
    - yongjik 5y ago
      Actually yes, in 2019 it made a profit of 890.5 billion KRW, or about 770M USD, which was a 15-year profitable streak since 2004 [1]. (It lost money in 2020, but that's hardly surprising ...) To be fair, it's one of the few airports in Korea that's actually making money. After Incheon, Korea built many vanity project airports and most of them are bleeding money. [1] https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200109105300004 https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200109105300004 (article in Korean)
Animats 5y ago
(2011?) He likes Inchon Airport. It has its own K-drama, "Air City". More detail than you can ever want to know about how Inchon Airport works.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I used to work at Munich Airport for while during my studies. Besides Amazon probably the coolest job I ever had. Is that drama available for streaming somewhere by any chance?
  - Animats 5y ago
    Yes, but it's getting harder to find at good quality. Amazon says "not available in the US". Try DramaCool.
- dang 5y ago
  Year added above. Thanks!
ReptileMan 5y ago
Once upon a time I was joking that the real reason for the airport security theater is to force you early onto the airport so you are to spend money out of sheer boredom.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- flemhans 5y ago
  Many airports do the opposite, try to shorten security time so that you spend more time purchasing products in the mall. Similarly, flight info displays should be put right after security, but before the duty free shop, otherwise people hurry through the shop to check their flight.
causality0 5y ago
Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator. If you’re not in a hurry, stand on the right and enjoy the ride, allowing those of us with a flight to catch to walk on the left. That's actually the first time I've heard that. I was always told to stand still and keep a hand on both rails for any escalator over one story for safety.
- ghaff 5y ago
  This is extremely common on just about any escalator in the US (and many other places).
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Many escalators esp. older ones are not wide enough to allow two people to pass comfortably.
    - Macha 5y ago
      This is likely one of those cases where something became widespread in the US before other countries, so places had the benefit of looking at the US implementation (or just improvements of technology over time) before installing their own. I notice it with elevators in my own country - I rarely encounter an older, shaky, rattly elevator in my own country... because we took so long before they were as widespread.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        The first escalators in widespread use were in Paris and London. But I think the real reason is cost: a metro system will pay for the extra capacity of a wide escalator. A shopping centre would prefer people not to hurry, can use the space for displaying goods, and thus chooses an escalator sized for one person.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  Here in Munich in the underground for a long time they advertised "walk on the left, stand on the right" however as a notable number of people wants to stand there are large clusters of people when a tran arrives at big stations trying to get to the right side, sonthey fried advertising "stand left and right" which would in theory be best use of capacity (still considering notable amount of people standing) however people didn't accept it and there always were people asking people to give was yin an unfriendly manner ... This tabloid has a picture of the poster they used for that campaign: https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/links-und-rechts-stehen-nicht-gehen-neue-rolltreppen-regel-fuer-muenchen-art-408967 https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/links-und-rech...
crazygringo 5y ago
> Why can’t every airport be like this? Because in the real world, constraints exist? > A fast, low-cost public transportation link to downtown. When cities grew before airports and so the underground is already full of subways and infrastructure, it can be prohibitively expensive to build a new fast tunnel to downtown. > but it’s the saturation of high-end boutiques that always confounds me If the author studied the economics of airport shops they would no longer be confounded. > Better dining options — i.e. fewer chain restaurants Airports provide what they think customers want. Generally travelers want familiarity, which chain restaurants provide. > Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator And other countries are any better...? Try replacing "Americans" with "people". All in all, this post is just a weird personal rant. Yes, airports aren't built to what the author personally desires. But when the author isn't going to do any research as to why they are the way they are, or accept that many of the things they want cost more money than people are willing to spend on airline tickets -- reading this post is just a waste of time.
- voisin 5y ago
  > If the author studied the economics of airport shops they would no longer be confounded. Can you elaborate? I concur with the author. If there were more reasonable priced shops, I would probably spend 3-4x what I do. Smaller profit but greater wallet share.
  - captainredbeard 5y ago
    One high profit “receipt” is better than several smaller profit receipts summing to the same total. Why? Lower transaction cost.
  - boberoni 5y ago
    I'm no expert on the economics of airport shops, but here's my take: Rent prices for airport shops are high and space is limited. If you reduce your prices to be more reasonable, you are relying on volume to make ends meet. This is challenging because space for inventory is limited and expensive in an airport. So, most shops in airports either (1) have to charge high prices to make a profit, or (2) aren't actually in the business of making a profit and are instead a marketing tactic for big brands. There's a lot of foot traffic in airports, so the big luxury brands will be willing to spend money on an airport storefront, even if it comes out as a net loss on sales.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Where do you have to pay for Wi-Fi? I hit about 15 different American airports back in 2019 and didn't run into this.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
  I can't be sure, but from various details such as the WiFi gripe my guess is this article could be 10 years old.
- deathanatos 5y ago
  It's hit or miss; I'd say ~1/3 of airports are free or free-ish (e.g., 30 minutes of access after you watch this ad), but the rest seem to have the cancer that is Boingo.
throwaway284534 5y ago
I’ll trade all of that just for some free luggage carts. Charging for them seems to specifically be an American thing and it isn’t doing our country any good image-wise. I’m guessing the reason isn’t just profit, it’s also to pay for the infrastructure to collect the carts and shuttle them through the terminals and back to their corral. Okay, fine, but tell me how this suppose to feel when a passenger actually decides to pay the fee? If they’re arriving to the airport by taxi, they need to scuttle all their bags over to the corral, pay by credit card, slide out the cart, and then load it. And if someone’s driven them to the airport their car is now idling at the entrance even longer, causing other arrivals to wait. You’d think this would become a lawsuit at some point, or at the very least airlines would realize they could make even more profit with additional luggage fees.
- novok 5y ago
  You'll pay for those luggage carts, either through the fees the airport charges via the ticket, through taxes making everything slightly more expensive at your destination country or by charging you directly.
bradleyjg 5y ago
The trade off for nice airports seems to be landing an hour by surface transportation from where you actually want to be. Some airports, like JFK in NYC, have the worst of both worlds, but given a choice I’d rather an ugly, cramped, poorly laid out airport that is close to city center.
- afavour 5y ago
  There are different levels when it comes to surface level transport. London Heathrow is pretty far outside the city but the Heathrow Express train, while not cheap, gets you to the centre of London in 15 minutes. The same is physically possible at JFK but it’s such a clusterfuck of disconnected authorities that it’ll never happen. Case in point: NYC’s LaGuardia is finally getting an AirTrain and it’ll head away from the city before you get on a train going in the right direction. Baffling.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Of course, there's also the Piccadilly line right there--which is cheaper and depending on where you're going (I commonly stay around Trafalgar Square) can end up being just as fast door to door. Public transit being actually right at the airport as opposed to somewhere connected by a bus or pokey airtrain of some sort makes a big difference. In general, new light rail lines in particular have improved the public transit situation at a number of US airprots.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    Heathrow express is very nice but Heathrow isn’t my idea of a great airport. Why do you have to walk 15-20 minutes to get to the gate once you get through security?
    - boring_twenties 5y ago
      Great question. Until last year, Salt Lake City was probably the most convenient airport in all of the US. So what did they do? Tear it down and replace it with a new terminal that requires a 15-20 minute walk to get to any gate.
Ambroos 5y ago
I don't have a huge variety of airport experience, but after about 40 trips in the last three years it's an efficient security I value most. In Brussels Airport there's a single security hall with a huge amount of lanes that are opened depending on demand. I've never had to wait more than a few minutes. You go to a "filling station" where the very large trays are automatically fed to the lower part of the station. Three people can put their things in trays in parallel. There's no operator at the machine, the images are checked centrally, and automatically pushed to the side when flagged. It's easy, modern and just completely frustration free. The rest of the Brussels Airport experience is a little different depending on which gates you're at (Schengen or non-Schengen) but still usually quite good in my opinion.
- sneak 5y ago
  Or just abolish the security theater that is the boarding search. The TSA misses the majority of weapons at their screening points, it is obvious to everyone that ~nobody permitted boarding wants to hijack planes, or planes would be hijacked all the time, and they aren't. The whole thing is a gigantic waste of time. Europe lets you keep your shoes on, in the US you have to get fingerprinted for Precheck to get to leave on your shoes and not get jammed into the naked scanner.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    My belief is the American ruling class is terrified of the working and under classes. Airports are where they can't escape having to interact with ordinary people. And that's why security theater exists.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      The "American ruling class" are probably flying private out of Teterboro, not riding Spirit out of LaGuardia. Security theater was a pretty direct response to 9/11. Now no politician wants to roll it back lest they be the fall guy if another terrorist attack happens after that.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
walkedaway 5y ago
> Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator. If you’re not in a hurry, stand on the right and enjoy the ride, allowing those of us with a flight to catch to walk on the left. OMG so much this. Maddening how oblivious Americans are to the basic tenets of getting along in a society. Not surprisingly, the same selfish, oblivious people behave the same way while driving their cars.
reillyse 5y ago
Unfortunately I think a lot of these problems are the result of the relentless focus on money in the US. Most of the problems have an incumbent business interest that prevents change. For example free wifi , all those companies who presumably paid to have their expensive wifi options available (boingo?). Transit links- rental car companies would not be happy with increased transit links,also you make far less revenue from car parking and the companies who run your car parking would not be happy. I think you can continue in this way for a lot of the issues.
underseacables 5y ago
I think the issues with American airports comes down to two things: money and control. Airports want to make money off of the shops inside, because they view passengers as a captured audience. The right business can survive in an airport, but not all of them. Especially in small airports. Really, I think it comes down to control. Airports view passengers as children needing to be controlled. They don’t need short term hotels, they don’t need showers, all of that is expensive and will lead to abuse, so the best way to control passengers is to give them as little comfort as possible. In a way, an airport is a lot like a prison.
mariojv 5y ago
Aside: I love independent blogs like this where the author is so passionate about a very particular topic. The enthusiasm radiates through their posts and gets one really excited about the subject. This blog in particular reminds me of http://texashighwayman.com/ http://texashighwayman.com/ due to its focus on travel and transit, with slightly less detail and specificity. I wish there were a way to more easily discover these.
cafard 5y ago
Bookstores: back in the 1980s, Reagan National (then just National) had an excellent bookstore. I know I picked up Vasily Askyonov's The Burn there, and I think I picked up Kingsley Amis's The Old Devils there. And I believe that Milwaukee actually had a used bookstore on one concourse.

56 points by NotSwift 5y ago

> What do we do at airports? We kill time. And there are few better and more productive ways of killing time than logging on to the Web...It should be everywhere, and it should be free. As long as the airports continue to make a killing off of internet fees, I can't imagine this happening any time soon.

tvst 5y ago
Or perhaps the opposite could happen: as more and more people start carrying devices that have access to the internet via cellular connection, airports could start providing Wi-Fi for free, as they could use that for tracking, marketing, and other "fun" uses
- rhino369 5y ago
  ORD and DCA have free wifi and they collect emails presumably for that marketing purpose.
- Macha 5y ago
  I think it's roaming fees that really get airports able to charge for wifi. 4G on my phone is already way more reliable than any airport wifi, and since within the EU it doesn't cost anything to use my data allowance while roaming, I never use airport wifi in the EU, it's only in the US I use it because there I have to pay €10/gb in advance for roaming data allowances.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Get Google Fi via eSIM before you leave. I haven't tried, but seems possible. Wonder why there isn't more companies doing same minus Google weird UX and creepy tracking.
    - Mary-Jane 5y ago
      Google FI user. I can confirm it fantastic great for international travel.
airstrike 5y ago
Next time they can just bring a book... Somehow humanity has managed to kill time for millennia before ARPANET
- wasmitnetzen 5y ago
  A book doesn't let me check if my flight is on time, check the weather at the destination, message anyone expecting me at the other end, ... There's a multitude of reasons to have a decent internet connection at an airport.
  - airstrike 5y ago
    Yes, but killing time is not one of them.
grecy 5y ago
What airport doesn't have free wifi? Of the dozens I've been to in the last 5 years they all did - even Bamako in Mali, Dar in Tanzania, Addis in Ethiopia, etc. etc.
- flemhans 5y ago
  Agreed, I don't remember the last time payment was required. Some do try to harvest your email address and organs.

rzz3 5y ago

The author’s comment about men not being able to use big fluffy pillows is sad, IMO. Who the fuck would care what someone thought of them being a pillow to an airport, unless they were deeply insecure and needed validation from strangers. I’m bringing a big fluffy pillow next time I fly.

thinkingemote 5y ago
Seems like the authors comment worked in encouraging more men to take pillows on their flights!
- rzz3 5y ago
  Yes! Lol
MarkSweep 5y ago
While we’re on the topic, I’d also recommend guys wear yoga leggings on planes. There is a reason you see so many women do so. They keep you legs warm enough and don’t get bunched up like jeans or slacks do. Just get some lululemon align leggings and maybe some basketball shorts to wear over if you are feeling modest and make sitting for 12 hours a little less uncomfortable.

rcarmo 5y ago

Douglas Adams said it best — “It can hardly be a coincidence that no language on earth has ever produced the expression, 'As pretty as an airport.’”

ghaff 5y ago

Picking out Boston to criticize transit options from airports seems an odd choice. The Silver Line is sort of a transit kludge (dedicated lane bus that, as noted, switches from electric to propane (?) at one point). And I guess the author is connecting from somewhere that requires changing lines. But you can literally see the airport from downtown and there is a transit option.

reillyse 5y ago
Yes but it’s so nice in other airports. Like most European airports have dedicated train stations in the basement. Not transit links or a bus going to another bus that you need to take a train to terminal z to get on, but an actual train station that has you straight away integrated with the rail network. Go down a couple of escalators and hop on a train to your destination. Easy.
- ghaff 5y ago
  It depends where you're going. The Silver Line stops at each terminal so there's very little walking required unlike some airports. And if you're going to the Seaport area or (near) the Financial District, there are no transfers required. And in the case of Boston connecting directly to the rail network as opposed to subway system wouldn't make a lot of sense. You're probably not talking Amtrak if you just flew in and the commuter rail probably doesn't make a lot of sense either.
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    It doesn't make sense with the current state of US rail, but in Europe the equivalent of commuter rail (in terms of distance covered and speed) runs on a pretty decent schedule during daylight hours at a reasonable price, a far cry from premium US commuter rail that barely runs during the middle of the day. (They also generally run through the city center to the other side of the city, but the N-S tunnel is a whole nother can of worms.) Boston Logan is the regional international airport, and if the trains were frequent and fast enough there's no reason why one shouldn't theoretically be able to take the train from a suburb to the airport. You'd save enough money from the long-term parking alone.

pomian 5y ago

This is a great article. So much relevant commentary not just about airports, but also many facets of North American Life. One example: where are they local diners? Airports, truck stops, malls, and suburbia. We are losing local food with character and flavour, instead submitting to greasy salty national chain stores. Noise is another issue. Good read.

pm90 5y ago
> One example: where are they local diners? Austin actually does this. Salt Lick BBQ and a few other Austin restaurants have a presence in the airport.
- jacobkg 5y ago
  My wife brought back a frozen brisket from the Austin airport to finish in the bbq at home. It was excellent

neither_color 5y ago

I'm not one of those people obsessed with shaming american infrastructure by using trains; I don't really care about trains. Instead I'll be the first to shame American airports. Many Asian airports truly put us to shame. Notably Changi, Incheon, Hong Kong, etc. Those airports are so delightful that pre-covid when I was flying I would deliberately choose tickets with a long layover just to relax in them.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Which major US airports do not have train or public transit to the city center? Chicago does for both Midway and O'Hare, I'm pretty sure NYC does, not sure about others (not much of a traveler).
- swampthinker 5y ago
  JFK and EWR don't have direct connections to public transit, but instead offer a mediocre people mover to a nearby train station. LGA only has a bus.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ssorallen 5y ago
  LaGuardia in NYC requires transferring to a bus for the final connection from the subway to the airport. It’s infuriatingly difficult to get right even after doing the route many times. I’d often call a Lyft/Uber at 10x the price of the subway+bus because the public transit route is that annoying to deal with.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    It’s a little better than it used to be with at least dedicated buses to Woodside and Jackson Heights instead of having to take some random local Queens bus. Still bad though, and Cuomo’s AirTrain route is beyond stupid. JFK’s story isn’t great, Jamaica and the LIRR aren’t designed for tourists, but it’s much better than LGA.

analog31 5y ago

>>> Of course, I am opposed to jet bridges on principle. I prefer the classic, drive-up airstairs. Some of the international stations I fly to still employ those old-timey stairs, and I always get a thrill from them. The stairs also have fewer failure modes.

ghaff 5y ago
They're also terrible for people with mobility issues and you're exposed to the elements.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  They're also impractical for larger planes — you'll only use stairs on an A320 or B737. I've disembarked from a B777 via stairs following an emergency landing. The stairs were narrower than the ones for a smaller aircraft, and much more wobbly. We were limited to 3 people at a time on them, so it was very slow. The 777's door is also considerably higher up, about 5m vs. about 2.5m. Size comparison: https://imgur.com/gallery/bxyI0Er https://imgur.com/gallery/bxyI0Er
toast0 5y ago
I love the stairs, and especially when they bring stairs to the front and the rear of the plane, but they're not great for people with mobility challenges. I guess dual jetbridges could be an option to speed boarding and deboarding, but I've never seen that happen.
- mmcconnell1618 5y ago
  How about triple jet bridges for an A380? https://youtu.be/64JXmuYZ7pA?t=55 https://youtu.be/64JXmuYZ7pA?t=55
  - toast0 5y ago
    Yeah, but I'm probably never flying on one of those. Almost all my flights are on narrow body planes.

nickdothutton 5y ago

Incheon. I have flown many hundreds of times over my lifetime to most continents and this remains the best thought-out airport. I only need give 1 example. You can move from your seat on the plane, with your 4-wheeled cabin case, all the way through the entire airport to your taxi using no more than your pinky finger to push the case. There are no bumps, no stairs, no changes in elevation that require you lift the thing. A 90yr old could do it. This is no accident.

thunderbong 5y ago
The article rates Incheon airport at the top of the list.
- csomar 5y ago
  The dangerous question is: Is it turning a profit (or at least breaking even?); or being supported by the government. Because the Asia economy flights are "dirt cheap".
  - b3morales 5y ago
    Does the airport individually need to make a profit if its effect on the region is net positive?
    - csomar 5y ago
      Sure not, but then it could be a door for corruption.
  - yongjik 5y ago
    Actually yes, in 2019 it made a profit of 890.5 billion KRW, or about 770M USD, which was a 15-year profitable streak since 2004 [1]. (It lost money in 2020, but that's hardly surprising ...) To be fair, it's one of the few airports in Korea that's actually making money. After Incheon, Korea built many vanity project airports and most of them are bleeding money. [1] https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200109105300004 https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200109105300004 (article in Korean)

Animats 5y ago

(2011?) He likes Inchon Airport. It has its own K-drama, "Air City". More detail than you can ever want to know about how Inchon Airport works.

hef19898 5y ago
I used to work at Munich Airport for while during my studies. Besides Amazon probably the coolest job I ever had. Is that drama available for streaming somewhere by any chance?
- Animats 5y ago
  Yes, but it's getting harder to find at good quality. Amazon says "not available in the US". Try DramaCool.
dang 5y ago
Year added above. Thanks!

ReptileMan 5y ago

Once upon a time I was joking that the real reason for the airport security theater is to force you early onto the airport so you are to spend money out of sheer boredom.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
flemhans 5y ago
Many airports do the opposite, try to shorten security time so that you spend more time purchasing products in the mall. Similarly, flight info displays should be put right after security, but before the duty free shop, otherwise people hurry through the shop to check their flight.

causality0 5y ago

Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator. If you’re not in a hurry, stand on the right and enjoy the ride, allowing those of us with a flight to catch to walk on the left. That's actually the first time I've heard that. I was always told to stand still and keep a hand on both rails for any escalator over one story for safety.

ghaff 5y ago
This is extremely common on just about any escalator in the US (and many other places).
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Many escalators esp. older ones are not wide enough to allow two people to pass comfortably.
  - Macha 5y ago
    This is likely one of those cases where something became widespread in the US before other countries, so places had the benefit of looking at the US implementation (or just improvements of technology over time) before installing their own. I notice it with elevators in my own country - I rarely encounter an older, shaky, rattly elevator in my own country... because we took so long before they were as widespread.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      The first escalators in widespread use were in Paris and London. But I think the real reason is cost: a metro system will pay for the extra capacity of a wide escalator. A shopping centre would prefer people not to hurry, can use the space for displaying goods, and thus chooses an escalator sized for one person.
johannes1234321 5y ago
Here in Munich in the underground for a long time they advertised "walk on the left, stand on the right" however as a notable number of people wants to stand there are large clusters of people when a tran arrives at big stations trying to get to the right side, sonthey fried advertising "stand left and right" which would in theory be best use of capacity (still considering notable amount of people standing) however people didn't accept it and there always were people asking people to give was yin an unfriendly manner ... This tabloid has a picture of the poster they used for that campaign: https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/links-und-rechts-stehen-nicht-gehen-neue-rolltreppen-regel-fuer-muenchen-art-408967 https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/links-und-rech...

crazygringo 5y ago

> Why can’t every airport be like this? Because in the real world, constraints exist? > A fast, low-cost public transportation link to downtown. When cities grew before airports and so the underground is already full of subways and infrastructure, it can be prohibitively expensive to build a new fast tunnel to downtown. > but it’s the saturation of high-end boutiques that always confounds me If the author studied the economics of airport shops they would no longer be confounded. > Better dining options — i.e. fewer chain restaurants Airports provide what they think customers want. Generally travelers want familiarity, which chain restaurants provide. > Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator And other countries are any better...? Try replacing "Americans" with "people". All in all, this post is just a weird personal rant. Yes, airports aren't built to what the author personally desires. But when the author isn't going to do any research as to why they are the way they are, or accept that many of the things they want cost more money than people are willing to spend on airline tickets -- reading this post is just a waste of time.

voisin 5y ago
> If the author studied the economics of airport shops they would no longer be confounded. Can you elaborate? I concur with the author. If there were more reasonable priced shops, I would probably spend 3-4x what I do. Smaller profit but greater wallet share.
- captainredbeard 5y ago
  One high profit “receipt” is better than several smaller profit receipts summing to the same total. Why? Lower transaction cost.
- boberoni 5y ago
  I'm no expert on the economics of airport shops, but here's my take: Rent prices for airport shops are high and space is limited. If you reduce your prices to be more reasonable, you are relying on volume to make ends meet. This is challenging because space for inventory is limited and expensive in an airport. So, most shops in airports either (1) have to charge high prices to make a profit, or (2) aren't actually in the business of making a profit and are instead a marketing tactic for big brands. There's a lot of foot traffic in airports, so the big luxury brands will be willing to spend money on an airport storefront, even if it comes out as a net loss on sales.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Where do you have to pay for Wi-Fi? I hit about 15 different American airports back in 2019 and didn't run into this.

alamortsubite 5y ago
I can't be sure, but from various details such as the WiFi gripe my guess is this article could be 10 years old.
deathanatos 5y ago
It's hit or miss; I'd say ~1/3 of airports are free or free-ish (e.g., 30 minutes of access after you watch this ad), but the rest seem to have the cancer that is Boingo.

throwaway284534 5y ago

I’ll trade all of that just for some free luggage carts. Charging for them seems to specifically be an American thing and it isn’t doing our country any good image-wise. I’m guessing the reason isn’t just profit, it’s also to pay for the infrastructure to collect the carts and shuttle them through the terminals and back to their corral. Okay, fine, but tell me how this suppose to feel when a passenger actually decides to pay the fee? If they’re arriving to the airport by taxi, they need to scuttle all their bags over to the corral, pay by credit card, slide out the cart, and then load it. And if someone’s driven them to the airport their car is now idling at the entrance even longer, causing other arrivals to wait. You’d think this would become a lawsuit at some point, or at the very least airlines would realize they could make even more profit with additional luggage fees.

novok 5y ago
You'll pay for those luggage carts, either through the fees the airport charges via the ticket, through taxes making everything slightly more expensive at your destination country or by charging you directly.

bradleyjg 5y ago

The trade off for nice airports seems to be landing an hour by surface transportation from where you actually want to be. Some airports, like JFK in NYC, have the worst of both worlds, but given a choice I’d rather an ugly, cramped, poorly laid out airport that is close to city center.

afavour 5y ago
There are different levels when it comes to surface level transport. London Heathrow is pretty far outside the city but the Heathrow Express train, while not cheap, gets you to the centre of London in 15 minutes. The same is physically possible at JFK but it’s such a clusterfuck of disconnected authorities that it’ll never happen. Case in point: NYC’s LaGuardia is finally getting an AirTrain and it’ll head away from the city before you get on a train going in the right direction. Baffling.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Of course, there's also the Piccadilly line right there--which is cheaper and depending on where you're going (I commonly stay around Trafalgar Square) can end up being just as fast door to door. Public transit being actually right at the airport as opposed to somewhere connected by a bus or pokey airtrain of some sort makes a big difference. In general, new light rail lines in particular have improved the public transit situation at a number of US airprots.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Heathrow express is very nice but Heathrow isn’t my idea of a great airport. Why do you have to walk 15-20 minutes to get to the gate once you get through security?
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    Great question. Until last year, Salt Lake City was probably the most convenient airport in all of the US. So what did they do? Tear it down and replace it with a new terminal that requires a 15-20 minute walk to get to any gate.

Ambroos 5y ago

I don't have a huge variety of airport experience, but after about 40 trips in the last three years it's an efficient security I value most. In Brussels Airport there's a single security hall with a huge amount of lanes that are opened depending on demand. I've never had to wait more than a few minutes. You go to a "filling station" where the very large trays are automatically fed to the lower part of the station. Three people can put their things in trays in parallel. There's no operator at the machine, the images are checked centrally, and automatically pushed to the side when flagged. It's easy, modern and just completely frustration free. The rest of the Brussels Airport experience is a little different depending on which gates you're at (Schengen or non-Schengen) but still usually quite good in my opinion.

sneak 5y ago
Or just abolish the security theater that is the boarding search. The TSA misses the majority of weapons at their screening points, it is obvious to everyone that ~nobody permitted boarding wants to hijack planes, or planes would be hijacked all the time, and they aren't. The whole thing is a gigantic waste of time. Europe lets you keep your shoes on, in the US you have to get fingerprinted for Precheck to get to leave on your shoes and not get jammed into the naked scanner.
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  My belief is the American ruling class is terrified of the working and under classes. Airports are where they can't escape having to interact with ordinary people. And that's why security theater exists.
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    The "American ruling class" are probably flying private out of Teterboro, not riding Spirit out of LaGuardia. Security theater was a pretty direct response to 9/11. Now no politician wants to roll it back lest they be the fall guy if another terrorist attack happens after that.
alamortsubite 5y ago

walkedaway 5y ago

> Americans haven’t figured out how to behave on an escalator. If you’re not in a hurry, stand on the right and enjoy the ride, allowing those of us with a flight to catch to walk on the left. OMG so much this. Maddening how oblivious Americans are to the basic tenets of getting along in a society. Not surprisingly, the same selfish, oblivious people behave the same way while driving their cars.

reillyse 5y ago

Unfortunately I think a lot of these problems are the result of the relentless focus on money in the US. Most of the problems have an incumbent business interest that prevents change. For example free wifi , all those companies who presumably paid to have their expensive wifi options available (boingo?). Transit links- rental car companies would not be happy with increased transit links,also you make far less revenue from car parking and the companies who run your car parking would not be happy. I think you can continue in this way for a lot of the issues.

underseacables 5y ago

I think the issues with American airports comes down to two things: money and control. Airports want to make money off of the shops inside, because they view passengers as a captured audience. The right business can survive in an airport, but not all of them. Especially in small airports. Really, I think it comes down to control. Airports view passengers as children needing to be controlled. They don’t need short term hotels, they don’t need showers, all of that is expensive and will lead to abuse, so the best way to control passengers is to give them as little comfort as possible. In a way, an airport is a lot like a prison.

mariojv 5y ago

Aside: I love independent blogs like this where the author is so passionate about a very particular topic. The enthusiasm radiates through their posts and gets one really excited about the subject. This blog in particular reminds me of http://texashighwayman.com/ http://texashighwayman.com/ due to its focus on travel and transit, with slightly less detail and specificity. I wish there were a way to more easily discover these.

cafard 5y ago

Bookstores: back in the 1980s, Reagan National (then just National) had an excellent bookstore. I know I picked up Vasily Askyonov's The Burn there, and I think I picked up Kingsley Amis's The Old Devils there. And I believe that Milwaukee actually had a used bookstore on one concourse.