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That's complex decision-making under conditions of uncertainty for you. The authorities themselves are partly to blame for not being totally clear that they're

That's complex decision-making under conditions of uncertainty for you. The authorities themselves are partly to blame for not being totally clear that they're human and figuring this out on the fly like everyone else, but the general population is also to blame for acting like a bunch of spoiled children and feeling entitled to perfect answers and zero mistakes.

voisin 5y ago
Admitting the uncertainty is my point. Instead they change the messaging week by week and act like this latest messaging is certain.
- detaro 5y ago
  Each of those steps had more nuance being communicated than the half-sentence you summarize it with, often with intense public debate and different judgment calls from different health authorities. (AZ and if/how to use it is probably the biggest example, vaccination for children is another (at least here in DE that's a massive thing)) None of these things were "this is the absolute truth forever".
  - gambiting 5y ago
    Exactly, people forget that actually, the official government message is NOT the snippet on BBC or in a newspaper, there's usually a much longer and complex explanation to be found directly on NHS website or you can ask your GP. I have this problem with my mum - she watches the news and complains that the government never explains anything properly - but I'm like, mum....you realize news stations aren't the government, right? You're just getting the abridged version and complain you don't see the full picture.
    - detaro 5y ago
      Often even just "read the newspaper article" vs just the headline or the TV news snippet.
gonzo41 5y ago
I'm in Australia, and our pandemic's management from some of our governments is a bit like dropped spaghetti. Ie it's a big mess. Anyway, the frustrating issue is that advice seems to be risk based mixed with environmental conditions. Which seems sensible, but I actually think it's not the correct approach. So right now we have a bloom of Delta in Sydney, and our medical advice was previously not recommending AZ because of the chance of blood clots. However now the situation is really quickly getting out of hand and they are recommending AZ. It strongly seems like they considered Australia being some island all on it's own some massive mitigating factor which changed the impact of the virus. And as a consequence a lot of people are without any vaccine and a lot of hesitancy about AZ. The failure here was they thought they had time to wait for pfizer. But Delta acts like Delta and is just spreading around like wildfire. I actually believe some of the advice is suffering from normalization of deviance. Where the deviance is being able to suppress the virus with things like quarantine. As opposed to getting everyone vaccinated. Oh btw, I'm under 40 and got AZ because I'm willing to risk it. I've never been struck by lighting and i've done way riskier things.
- throw868788 5y ago
  Let's be honest. IMO the assumption of Australia being an island was right (as evidenced by the states that made sure their states were islands most notably WA). At this stage WA is clearly the "gold standard" of COVID management, not NSW. NSW, given the numbers it was taking through its "hotels" which never should of been permanent quarantine facilities in any case was not "an island" at all. They arguably were just lucky most of this time, and through hubris of the local people there this was considered good "gold standard" management. The low tech easy solution for a country like Australia is really better quarantine facilities (i.e. not hotels in the middle of population centers) IMO coupled with a vaccine rollout geared to workers at the quarantine facility (and potentially freight facilities). Its easier to rollout the vaccine and subsequent updates to it for future variants to a smaller number quicker. States in Australia that limited their international intake seem to be doing better than particularly Sydney who were taking the most arrivals. It really isn't an island when your taking the brunt of international arrivals. The fact that it was even working (hotels) for as long as it did shows the effectiveness of a good quarantine strategy. Low tech, simple solutions usually trump high tech solutions that require everyone to participate (problem of the commons).

voisin 5y ago

Admitting the uncertainty is my point. Instead they change the messaging week by week and act like this latest messaging is certain.

detaro 5y ago
Each of those steps had more nuance being communicated than the half-sentence you summarize it with, often with intense public debate and different judgment calls from different health authorities. (AZ and if/how to use it is probably the biggest example, vaccination for children is another (at least here in DE that's a massive thing)) None of these things were "this is the absolute truth forever".
- gambiting 5y ago
  Exactly, people forget that actually, the official government message is NOT the snippet on BBC or in a newspaper, there's usually a much longer and complex explanation to be found directly on NHS website or you can ask your GP. I have this problem with my mum - she watches the news and complains that the government never explains anything properly - but I'm like, mum....you realize news stations aren't the government, right? You're just getting the abridged version and complain you don't see the full picture.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Often even just "read the newspaper article" vs just the headline or the TV news snippet.

gonzo41 5y ago

I'm in Australia, and our pandemic's management from some of our governments is a bit like dropped spaghetti. Ie it's a big mess. Anyway, the frustrating issue is that advice seems to be risk based mixed with environmental conditions. Which seems sensible, but I actually think it's not the correct approach. So right now we have a bloom of Delta in Sydney, and our medical advice was previously not recommending AZ because of the chance of blood clots. However now the situation is really quickly getting out of hand and they are recommending AZ. It strongly seems like they considered Australia being some island all on it's own some massive mitigating factor which changed the impact of the virus. And as a consequence a lot of people are without any vaccine and a lot of hesitancy about AZ. The failure here was they thought they had time to wait for pfizer. But Delta acts like Delta and is just spreading around like wildfire. I actually believe some of the advice is suffering from normalization of deviance. Where the deviance is being able to suppress the virus with things like quarantine. As opposed to getting everyone vaccinated. Oh btw, I'm under 40 and got AZ because I'm willing to risk it. I've never been struck by lighting and i've done way riskier things.

throw868788 5y ago
Let's be honest. IMO the assumption of Australia being an island was right (as evidenced by the states that made sure their states were islands most notably WA). At this stage WA is clearly the "gold standard" of COVID management, not NSW. NSW, given the numbers it was taking through its "hotels" which never should of been permanent quarantine facilities in any case was not "an island" at all. They arguably were just lucky most of this time, and through hubris of the local people there this was considered good "gold standard" management. The low tech easy solution for a country like Australia is really better quarantine facilities (i.e. not hotels in the middle of population centers) IMO coupled with a vaccine rollout geared to workers at the quarantine facility (and potentially freight facilities). Its easier to rollout the vaccine and subsequent updates to it for future variants to a smaller number quicker. States in Australia that limited their international intake seem to be doing better than particularly Sydney who were taking the most arrivals. It really isn't an island when your taking the brunt of international arrivals. The fact that it was even working (hotels) for as long as it did shows the effectiveness of a good quarantine strategy. Low tech, simple solutions usually trump high tech solutions that require everyone to participate (problem of the commons).