3 ms·

I think it depends on how it's done. I'd like to see this implemented with roughly the same systems which make me wear a bicycle helmet, a seatbelt, or have tu

I think it depends on how it's done. I'd like to see this implemented with roughly the same systems which make me wear a bicycle helmet, a seatbelt, or have turn signals, which I don't find so scary. In these systems, you have a law. You have law enforcement. Law enforcement doesn't catch everyone, and doesn't have particularly aggressive police powers. I'm fearful it will be implemented with the same systems which make us register guns and have background checks, track bank transfers over $10,000, check IDs when buying cold medicine, or track us as we travel. In these systems, you have law enforcement. Enforcement is given tools to track and monitor what people do just in case someone might be a criminal.

roenxi 5y ago
> I'd like to see this implemented with roughly the same systems which make me wear a bicycle helmet, a seatbelt, or have turn signals, which I don't find so scary. There is a big difference between those and mandatory vaccinations. If you're going to vaccinate everyone then it isn't like people can choose to opt out. Plus the logistical issues of how to vaccinate foreigners. In Australia, Sydney is currently in lockdown because it turns out that masks & social distancing can't be enforced enough to contain a COVID outbreak.
- murgindrag 5y ago
  I'm not quite sure I see the difference. You pass a law: - Requiring vaccinations, or a $800 fine - Permitting private venues to verify vaccination status by looking at vaccine cards (e.g. employers, concerts, etc.) - Make it a crime to forge vaccine cards - International travel already has yellow vaccine books, and it's well-established to check vaccines upon entry to/from high-risk countries You don't implement any infrastructure to track vaccinations. I show my vaccine card when I enter a concert, same as I do when ordering alcohol. No one records anything. The bar for intentionally breaking laws is much higher than not getting a vaccine. I think most people will follow laws voluntarily. Most of the ones who don't follow the law won't get caught, but a few will.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    > I'm not quite sure I see the difference. If you think it is reasonable to force people to make medical decisions when it is for the greater good, do you have an argument against mandatory sterilisation? Because I don't see an easy way to be pro- forced vaccinations and anti- forced sterlisation. The basic argument is if the government can do this with only 1-3 years debate (when previously vaccines takes 4+ years to evaluate) then it starts opening the door to some really scary stuff getting rushed through. I'm more interested now in what you think is holding the door shut. > I show my vaccine card when I enter ... No one records anything. The vaccine card is what people are talking about when the say 'record'.

roenxi 5y ago

> I'd like to see this implemented with roughly the same systems which make me wear a bicycle helmet, a seatbelt, or have turn signals, which I don't find so scary. There is a big difference between those and mandatory vaccinations. If you're going to vaccinate everyone then it isn't like people can choose to opt out. Plus the logistical issues of how to vaccinate foreigners. In Australia, Sydney is currently in lockdown because it turns out that masks & social distancing can't be enforced enough to contain a COVID outbreak.

murgindrag 5y ago
I'm not quite sure I see the difference. You pass a law: - Requiring vaccinations, or a $800 fine - Permitting private venues to verify vaccination status by looking at vaccine cards (e.g. employers, concerts, etc.) - Make it a crime to forge vaccine cards - International travel already has yellow vaccine books, and it's well-established to check vaccines upon entry to/from high-risk countries You don't implement any infrastructure to track vaccinations. I show my vaccine card when I enter a concert, same as I do when ordering alcohol. No one records anything. The bar for intentionally breaking laws is much higher than not getting a vaccine. I think most people will follow laws voluntarily. Most of the ones who don't follow the law won't get caught, but a few will.
- roenxi 5y ago
  > I'm not quite sure I see the difference. If you think it is reasonable to force people to make medical decisions when it is for the greater good, do you have an argument against mandatory sterilisation? Because I don't see an easy way to be pro- forced vaccinations and anti- forced sterlisation. The basic argument is if the government can do this with only 1-3 years debate (when previously vaccines takes 4+ years to evaluate) then it starts opening the door to some really scary stuff getting rushed through. I'm more interested now in what you think is holding the door shut. > I show my vaccine card when I enter ... No one records anything. The vaccine card is what people are talking about when the say 'record'.