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As a long term, very frequent recreational cannabis user I'm interested whether cannabis has real capability to cause this and other health issues. I find it di

As a long term, very frequent recreational cannabis user I'm interested whether cannabis has real capability to cause this and other health issues. I find it difficult to believe that cannabis directly causes schizophrenia rather than simply "revealing" it, but I don't want to shut my eyes to these possible complications. I personally experienced the reduced motivation and ability to control one's life caused by chronic marijuana (mis)use, bordering on addiction. I hear some people experience pretty strong withdrawal symptoms, but definitely no such thing on my end - were they simultaneously abusing other substances, possibly? I personally think weed is overall better than alcohol for most people, and I wish it replaced drinking as the primary socially-accepted drug, but I'd like to know if I'm wrong, or to what degree.

ogwh 5y ago
I think alcohol is better for the simple reason that the negative consequences are more immediately obvious. Cannabis is much more sinister in that the negatives usually creep up on you before you notice and so long as it has you in its grip you may not even notice until you stop. I've witnessed people have acute psychotic breaks after smoking strong cannabis for the first time, and met one man with schizophrenia who attributed his condition to his past cannabis use. Whether he's right I don't know, but the connection is at least well acknowledged nowadays.
- drw85 5y ago
  I don't think alcohols consequences are more immediate or obvious to most people. It's also much more physically addicting in that your body needs it to function at some point. I personally know two people that are schizophrenic and were long term heavy marihuana users, of course that's also anecdotal and in both cases there were other drugs involved aswell. I don't think alcohol is better at all, it's actually really bad and culturally much more accepted. People start drinking really early and pretty heavily. The long term effects are not that obvious to most people.
- mgerullis 5y ago
  > negative consequences are more immediately obvious I don’t think so since we are used to drunk people. You know how many people I’ve seen beating each other in a drunk rage? I have never seen that with smokers.
- myWindoonn 5y ago
  You should reconsider your "until you stop" qualification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hypnotic_withdrawal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hyp...
scottlilly 5y ago
I did a 23 & Me test, pulled down my raw data, and ran the data through some services that check more things than 23 & Me. One of my SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) indicated I have a higher chance of a psychotic reaction to marijuana (it's been a long time, so I may not be remembering everything exactly). I've never smoked, so can't say anything anecdotal. But, I found it interesting that this was something that might be determined (affected?) by our genes.
- throwuxiytayq 5y ago
  Thanks, this is very interesting - I hope that one day these tests become accurate enough to mitigate the risks. Even now they're an extremely valuable signal.
joelbluminator 5y ago
Alcohol is pretty much poison I agree with you there, I mean being hung over badly really feels to me like being poisoned. It's an unhealthy, shitty, possibly addictive substance but it just feels good and socially accepted. However, perhaps there is one small difference; if you drink moderately you will almost surely be fine. 1-2 beers will not induce panic attacks, paranoia etc. With cannabis there is a small but significant segment of people (especially new users) that will experience bad panic attacks, paranoia and in rare cases erruption of mental illnesses. It gets worse when consuming large ammounts of cannabis but I think even moderate use can cause this. Other than that there is the fact that cannabis stays for a long time in your system; up to 2 weeks. Thats 2 weeks of possibly diminished cognitive performance (I am not sure how diminished), thats a pretty bad side effect especially for students! Smoking even as much as once a week can have a bad effect. Having a beer once a week doesn't do that.
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  It’s debatable if marijuana affects your mental ability. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/18/scientists-have-found-that-smoking-weed-does-not-make-you-stupid-after-all/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/18/scien...
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    This paper is about long term effects, specifically whether IQ declines in adulthood after adolescent use. I was talking about effects days after use. "The strongest evidence regarding cannabis and memory focuses on its temporary negative effects on short-term and working memory.[83]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis I'm not saying cannabis will make you dumb forever, but I am saying there's evidence it can diminish your abilities for up to a week or two after use, which might be a lot for certain people such as students, academics etc.
    - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
      And I’m saying that’s also debatable. An anecdote, I can get blazed to high heaven and still perform my complex job duties with little difference in performance. I’ve won multiple trivia competitions while actively vaping marijuana. I took my driving test after ripping a bong. “Some” people may be dumber, but not all.
bennysomething 5y ago
This comes from an episode of QI so I could be wrong, there's no evidence that alcohol kills brain cells. Pretty certain weed does? Thing is alcohol (for me at least) is a great social lubricant. Weed is the complete opposite, it just makes me paranoid and awkward. I know beer is bad for me but I can't lie, I enjoy meeting up with friends for drinks and I've had some great times drinking.
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  Weed kills brain cells? I used to be a heavy marijuana user, like all day every day. Didn’t have any affect of my mental ability. What it did affect is my mood, it helps my anxiety, and helps deal with my chronic back spasms. I quit because it’s too expensive and does prevent me from wanting to be physically active. Anecdotal, my brother is schizoaffective. He exhibited signs as early as 18. Unfortunately, none of my family understood what those signs were until he was in his late twenties. Regular pot use didn’t negatively affect him, but he started getting into dabs and that’s when his symptoms began to manifest and he started becoming schizophrenic. If anything pot made his schizoaffective disorder worse, but he still already had it.
hnuser123456 5y ago
As a former long term frequent user, weed makes you dumb for several days after and it's fairly obvious. The slowdown, increased introversion, and dented motivation will stick with you for a while, but so will the increased baseline dopamine, at least if the user isn't functionally dependent. If you're already a shut-in, and smoke nonstop for years, it will multiply the introversion, and schizophrenia-like symptoms are essentially inevitable. You will be too nervous to let anyone see you in this state of degraded capacity, and cope with it by just smoking more, it's a vicious cycle. If you have friends who don't mind your habits, or join you frequently, the risk is mostly neutralized.

ogwh 5y ago

I think alcohol is better for the simple reason that the negative consequences are more immediately obvious. Cannabis is much more sinister in that the negatives usually creep up on you before you notice and so long as it has you in its grip you may not even notice until you stop. I've witnessed people have acute psychotic breaks after smoking strong cannabis for the first time, and met one man with schizophrenia who attributed his condition to his past cannabis use. Whether he's right I don't know, but the connection is at least well acknowledged nowadays.

drw85 5y ago
I don't think alcohols consequences are more immediate or obvious to most people. It's also much more physically addicting in that your body needs it to function at some point. I personally know two people that are schizophrenic and were long term heavy marihuana users, of course that's also anecdotal and in both cases there were other drugs involved aswell. I don't think alcohol is better at all, it's actually really bad and culturally much more accepted. People start drinking really early and pretty heavily. The long term effects are not that obvious to most people.
mgerullis 5y ago
> negative consequences are more immediately obvious I don’t think so since we are used to drunk people. You know how many people I’ve seen beating each other in a drunk rage? I have never seen that with smokers.
myWindoonn 5y ago
You should reconsider your "until you stop" qualification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hypnotic_withdrawal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hyp...

scottlilly 5y ago

I did a 23 & Me test, pulled down my raw data, and ran the data through some services that check more things than 23 & Me. One of my SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) indicated I have a higher chance of a psychotic reaction to marijuana (it's been a long time, so I may not be remembering everything exactly). I've never smoked, so can't say anything anecdotal. But, I found it interesting that this was something that might be determined (affected?) by our genes.

throwuxiytayq 5y ago
Thanks, this is very interesting - I hope that one day these tests become accurate enough to mitigate the risks. Even now they're an extremely valuable signal.

joelbluminator 5y ago

Alcohol is pretty much poison I agree with you there, I mean being hung over badly really feels to me like being poisoned. It's an unhealthy, shitty, possibly addictive substance but it just feels good and socially accepted. However, perhaps there is one small difference; if you drink moderately you will almost surely be fine. 1-2 beers will not induce panic attacks, paranoia etc. With cannabis there is a small but significant segment of people (especially new users) that will experience bad panic attacks, paranoia and in rare cases erruption of mental illnesses. It gets worse when consuming large ammounts of cannabis but I think even moderate use can cause this. Other than that there is the fact that cannabis stays for a long time in your system; up to 2 weeks. Thats 2 weeks of possibly diminished cognitive performance (I am not sure how diminished), thats a pretty bad side effect especially for students! Smoking even as much as once a week can have a bad effect. Having a beer once a week doesn't do that.

jbluepolarbear 5y ago
It’s debatable if marijuana affects your mental ability. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/18/scientists-have-found-that-smoking-weed-does-not-make-you-stupid-after-all/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/18/scien...
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  This paper is about long term effects, specifically whether IQ declines in adulthood after adolescent use. I was talking about effects days after use. "The strongest evidence regarding cannabis and memory focuses on its temporary negative effects on short-term and working memory.[83]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis I'm not saying cannabis will make you dumb forever, but I am saying there's evidence it can diminish your abilities for up to a week or two after use, which might be a lot for certain people such as students, academics etc.
  - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    And I’m saying that’s also debatable. An anecdote, I can get blazed to high heaven and still perform my complex job duties with little difference in performance. I’ve won multiple trivia competitions while actively vaping marijuana. I took my driving test after ripping a bong. “Some” people may be dumber, but not all.

bennysomething 5y ago

This comes from an episode of QI so I could be wrong, there's no evidence that alcohol kills brain cells. Pretty certain weed does? Thing is alcohol (for me at least) is a great social lubricant. Weed is the complete opposite, it just makes me paranoid and awkward. I know beer is bad for me but I can't lie, I enjoy meeting up with friends for drinks and I've had some great times drinking.

jbluepolarbear 5y ago
Weed kills brain cells? I used to be a heavy marijuana user, like all day every day. Didn’t have any affect of my mental ability. What it did affect is my mood, it helps my anxiety, and helps deal with my chronic back spasms. I quit because it’s too expensive and does prevent me from wanting to be physically active. Anecdotal, my brother is schizoaffective. He exhibited signs as early as 18. Unfortunately, none of my family understood what those signs were until he was in his late twenties. Regular pot use didn’t negatively affect him, but he started getting into dabs and that’s when his symptoms began to manifest and he started becoming schizophrenic. If anything pot made his schizoaffective disorder worse, but he still already had it.

hnuser123456 5y ago

As a former long term frequent user, weed makes you dumb for several days after and it's fairly obvious. The slowdown, increased introversion, and dented motivation will stick with you for a while, but so will the increased baseline dopamine, at least if the user isn't functionally dependent. If you're already a shut-in, and smoke nonstop for years, it will multiply the introversion, and schizophrenia-like symptoms are essentially inevitable. You will be too nervous to let anyone see you in this state of degraded capacity, and cope with it by just smoking more, it's a vicious cycle. If you have friends who don't mind your habits, or join you frequently, the risk is mostly neutralized.