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Recent sibling comment has added to the overwhelming tone of HN comments on TFA - that C++ is a poor language. Has Ken Thompson ever retracted those comments?
by Jedd 5y ago
Recent sibling comment has added to the overwhelming tone of HN comments on TFA - that C++ is a poor language.
Has Ken Thompson ever retracted those comments? I can't find anything to suggest he had a different assessment. The phrasing used in that interview / book sounds like this is a subject he has deeply considered and well-reasoned - certainly not an off-the-cuff 'C++ is awful'.
Ken and Bjarne may have some history, as you say - I do not know - but suggesting that implicitly reduces the legitimacy of his assessment may presuppose an inability to maintain impartiality on technical merits. I note that in the comments I quoted, and in other comments he's made about C++, his arguments are foremost about the quality and features of the language, with some hints about why it got to be the way.
Whether it's an appeal to authority, or a deference to someone with unarguable expertise, is perhaps a subtle distinction.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoMoreover, basically anyone who has been programming in C++ for more than a decade would have an opinion similar to Thompson, even without knowing the history of the language. Most programmers I know have chose a subset of the language with some features they feel the most reasonable/useful for them. C++ has so many features that taking over another codebase might actually feel like learning a new language. It is an actual problem, because in order to be efficient in a language you need to actively use it by writing code, and it's hardly possible to actively train in all aspects of C++ on a daily basis.
- pjmlp 5y agoAnyone who has been programming in C++ for more than a decade, knows pretty well how ISO works and how little influence Bjarne has on it. Additionally, anyone who has been programming for more than a decade, is most likely a polyglot developer has is well aware of similar problems in other languages. Which C#, TypeScript, Java, Haskell, OCaml, F#, PHP, Python,... subset do you happen to program on?
- rramadass 5y ago> C++ has so many features that taking over another codebase might actually feel like learning a new language. It is an actual problem, No; People keep repeating this as if it were a truism, but it is not borne out by any empirical evidence. Sure there is some learning ramp to understand a new style of programming but it is far more easier than trying to learn and express oneself fluently in a whole another language. This has been true both in my own experience and most of the people/teams i have worked with. See also the comment from "FpUser" in this thread echoing the same sentiments.
- rramadass 5y agoThe link from where you took the quote lists another by Ken Thompson which hints at the history between Stroustrup and him. People are people when it comes to biases, ego and personal relations whatever other characteristics they might be eminent in; so no need to deify anybody. History is full of great people who were mean/petty/egoistic towards perceived "competitors", eg; Newton and Leibniz, Edison and Tesla, James Watson and Racism etc. etc. >Recent sibling comment has added to the overwhelming tone of HN comments on TFA - that C++ is a poor language Your original posting of the quote added nothing to the OP article which is a quite nice introduction to Modern C++ features but hijacked the entire thread and set the negative tone for everything else with the result that instead of being a constructive thread on how best to introduce Modern C++ we are engaged in pointless arguments on the features of a language which has already been highly successful in the "Industry".