6 ms·

When I was in college, the laws were not quite so strict as they are now: in that state, persons over 18 could purchase 3.2 beer (3.2% alcohol by volume). Still

by cafard 5y ago

When I was in college, the laws were not quite so strict as they are now: in that state, persons over 18 could purchase 3.2 beer (3.2% alcohol by volume). Still, a fraternity or fraternities would bring in a fake-ID manufacturer every fall. Somebody on the student paper wanted to do an article on it. But his boss or bosses had had such a fake id. The article never ran. Let me add that the age of drinking was set to 21 across the country because the Reagan administration did not wish to make airbags mandatory. It was argued that raising the drinking age would produce an equivalent or greater savings in life compared to mandating airbags in new cars. The Department of Transportation could withhold funds from any state that allowed those under 21 to purchase alcoholic beverages. Those of you younger than I am will know how much effect raising the drinking age really had. My impression is, Not much.

wil421 5y ago
Do you have a source? That’s never been the story I’ve been told. MADD and a few other groups lobbied for the age to be 21 and they tied it to federal highway funds. It’s one of the reason Louisiana had really bad roads, they held out for longer or so the story goes. Mandatory airbags and seatbelts happened at the same time but MADD was focused on the alcohol part. 21-24 year olds had the highest rate of drunk driving but 37 year olds were the most to die in alcohol related crashes.[1]1993 https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1993/4/10/reagans-sober-legacy-pbtbhe-reagan-years/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1993/4/10/reagans-sober-l...
DaveExeter 5y ago
>Those of you younger than I am will know how much effect raising the drinking age really had. My impression is, Not much. I think it had a very negative effect of creating a cohort of second-class citizens, who had the responsibilities of adulthood but not the rights.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dhosek 5y ago
Wisconsin was one of the states with a drinking age of 18 while Illinois had 21. The border between the states was referred to as a "blood border" because of the large number of drunk driving fatalities of 18–20 year olds crossing the border to be able to legally buy alcohol. So, yes, the fact that the drinking age was 21 didn't prevent me from consuming excessive quantities of alcohol during my first three years of college¹, but it also eliminated differential situations like Illinois-Wisconsin which had a measurable impact on reducing DUI fatalities, so it was a bit more than not much. --- 1. During the late 80s, the dorm soda machines were stocked by the students. Many of the machines had a slot dedicated to beer (often a "random" slot where you took your chances. You might get something good, you might get Coors Light. The soda machine of the era were capable of dispensing glass bottles of beers even though they were designed for cans. Mostly capable. Occasionally, your 60 cents would end up buying you a pile of broken glass and beer foam. Regardless, having campus being the only place to feasibly buy alcohol meant that drunk driving incidents were rare to non-existent.
- fredophile 5y ago
  Is that any different from the large number of DUIs in and around dry counties? If you make it so that people have to drive somewhere else to drink then you're going to have some of those people making the return trip drunk.
- grp000 5y ago
  I went to college in 2010, and it's unreal to hear about beer vending machines.
  - TylerE 5y ago
    I'm a bit older than you - maybe a decade. I can't beleive beer vending, either, but I do remember cigarette machines.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I graduated in Massachusetts in 1979. I've never seen a beer vending machine. But even after age 21 drinking came in in the state, most of the bars where I went to school were perfectly fine with a college ID with no age on it. (And my drivers license at the time was an unlaminated piece of index stock with no photo.)
enkid 5y ago
Actually, a quick search shows the Minimum Legal Drinking Age (MLDA) of 21 has had a pretty significant impact in reducing drinking and drunk driving in those under 21. [0] [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/
- pas 5y ago
  Not surprising. This seems like a big externality of car-only transportation.
jfoutz 5y ago
I had a professor from Germany that strongly recommended drinking when young, and driving when old. I think there is a lot of wisdom there.
- goodcanadian 5y ago
  I learned to drive the ride on lawn mower when I was 6. I was small and light enough that the dead man switch sometimes shut off the mower when I went over a bump. I learned to drive the farm truck when I was about 12. I literally looked through the steering wheel rather than over it. At that age, it was still a big scary machine that I treated with respect. By the time I could legally drive on public roads, I was quite comfortable and confident with handling a vehicle. I already knew what I could get away with and what I couldn't. I think there is a lot to be said for learning to drive before you are a stupid teenager.
  - pas 5y ago
    The problem comes when confident drivers meet their new best friend, alcohol.
    - JackFr 5y ago
      What do you mean? Self-reported ability typically goes way up.
      - pas 5y ago
        Yes, exactly that. After a few beers everyone's gangsta and feel like they are going to beat the Fast & Furious franchise on the road home. Even drunk driving takes experience, and young people don't have it, no matter what they start with (driving or drinking).
    - goodcanadian 5y ago
      There is a difference between confident because you actually know what you are doing and confident because you are a dumb teenager. I don't know, maybe I was unusually smart, but I never dared mixing alcohol with driving.

by cafard 5y ago

wil421 5y ago

Do you have a source? That’s never been the story I’ve been told. MADD and a few other groups lobbied for the age to be 21 and they tied it to federal highway funds. It’s one of the reason Louisiana had really bad roads, they held out for longer or so the story goes. Mandatory airbags and seatbelts happened at the same time but MADD was focused on the alcohol part. 21-24 year olds had the highest rate of drunk driving but 37 year olds were the most to die in alcohol related crashes.[1]1993 https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1993/4/10/reagans-sober-legacy-pbtbhe-reagan-years/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1993/4/10/reagans-sober-l...

DaveExeter 5y ago

>Those of you younger than I am will know how much effect raising the drinking age really had. My impression is, Not much. I think it had a very negative effect of creating a cohort of second-class citizens, who had the responsibilities of adulthood but not the rights.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dhosek 5y ago

Wisconsin was one of the states with a drinking age of 18 while Illinois had 21. The border between the states was referred to as a "blood border" because of the large number of drunk driving fatalities of 18–20 year olds crossing the border to be able to legally buy alcohol. So, yes, the fact that the drinking age was 21 didn't prevent me from consuming excessive quantities of alcohol during my first three years of college¹, but it also eliminated differential situations like Illinois-Wisconsin which had a measurable impact on reducing DUI fatalities, so it was a bit more than not much. --- 1. During the late 80s, the dorm soda machines were stocked by the students. Many of the machines had a slot dedicated to beer (often a "random" slot where you took your chances. You might get something good, you might get Coors Light. The soda machine of the era were capable of dispensing glass bottles of beers even though they were designed for cans. Mostly capable. Occasionally, your 60 cents would end up buying you a pile of broken glass and beer foam. Regardless, having campus being the only place to feasibly buy alcohol meant that drunk driving incidents were rare to non-existent.

fredophile 5y ago
Is that any different from the large number of DUIs in and around dry counties? If you make it so that people have to drive somewhere else to drink then you're going to have some of those people making the return trip drunk.
grp000 5y ago
I went to college in 2010, and it's unreal to hear about beer vending machines.
- TylerE 5y ago
  I'm a bit older than you - maybe a decade. I can't beleive beer vending, either, but I do remember cigarette machines.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I graduated in Massachusetts in 1979. I've never seen a beer vending machine. But even after age 21 drinking came in in the state, most of the bars where I went to school were perfectly fine with a college ID with no age on it. (And my drivers license at the time was an unlaminated piece of index stock with no photo.)

enkid 5y ago

Actually, a quick search shows the Minimum Legal Drinking Age (MLDA) of 21 has had a pretty significant impact in reducing drinking and drunk driving in those under 21. [0] [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/

pas 5y ago
Not surprising. This seems like a big externality of car-only transportation.

jfoutz 5y ago

I had a professor from Germany that strongly recommended drinking when young, and driving when old. I think there is a lot of wisdom there.

goodcanadian 5y ago
I learned to drive the ride on lawn mower when I was 6. I was small and light enough that the dead man switch sometimes shut off the mower when I went over a bump. I learned to drive the farm truck when I was about 12. I literally looked through the steering wheel rather than over it. At that age, it was still a big scary machine that I treated with respect. By the time I could legally drive on public roads, I was quite comfortable and confident with handling a vehicle. I already knew what I could get away with and what I couldn't. I think there is a lot to be said for learning to drive before you are a stupid teenager.
- pas 5y ago
  The problem comes when confident drivers meet their new best friend, alcohol.
  - JackFr 5y ago
    What do you mean? Self-reported ability typically goes way up.
    - pas 5y ago
      Yes, exactly that. After a few beers everyone's gangsta and feel like they are going to beat the Fast & Furious franchise on the road home. Even drunk driving takes experience, and young people don't have it, no matter what they start with (driving or drinking).
  - goodcanadian 5y ago
    There is a difference between confident because you actually know what you are doing and confident because you are a dumb teenager. I don't know, maybe I was unusually smart, but I never dared mixing alcohol with driving.