4 ms·

Most folks don't want to share the roads with drunken teenage drivers. Don't get me wrong -- some teens are probably more than responsible enough to be trusted

by _Nat_ 5y ago

Most folks don't want to share the roads with drunken teenage drivers. Don't get me wrong -- some teens are probably more than responsible enough to be trusted with controlling their own drinking. However, it's those that aren't that're the concern. Parents generally don't want to have to worry about bars being allowed to serve their kids, either. Maybe not all parents feel that way, though I'd guess that those who'd be against their kids drinking would tend to have stronger feelings on the topic than those who'd be okay with it. Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinking-age.htm https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinki...

dkersten 5y ago
Doesn't seem to be a major problem in europe, where many countries have a legal drinking age of 18 or even 16 for beer. Besides, the law doesn't stop teens who want to drink from drinking, only from going to bars and makes them jump through more hoops to get their alcohol.
- _Nat_ 5y ago
  It's a problem in the US even with laws making it difficult for teens to get alcohol. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056 https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056
  - selectodude 5y ago
    >NHTSA estimates that minimum-drinking-age laws have saved 31,959 lives from 1975 to 2017. I wonder how many assaults and deaths have happened due to underage drinkers being too worried about going to the police or hospital due to their illegal consumption.
    - _Nat_ 5y ago
      And how many didn't need police-assistance or hospitalization because they were sober? If there's a perfect solution to ensuring that teens suffer no harm from alcohol, that'd be a neat thing! However broadly repealing prohibitions against teen-drinking wouldn't seem to be such a solution.
      - sebmellen 5y ago
        And yet, for all intents and purposes, it works fine in Europe to have the drinking age at 16/18. Perhaps even better than in the US! And with fewer drunk driving deaths as a percentage of fatal crashes [0]. Maybe because the driving age is slightly higher, training to become a driver is usually more rigorous, and max BAC levels are around 0.05%. Another aspect might be cultural — in my experience alcohol is much more taboo and simultaneously more likely to be abused by youth in the US than in Europe. This is probably because many grandmothers will give their grandkids a small glass of wine with dinner or a schnapps for New Years or other stuff like that. This de-stigmatizes the drug, thereby making it less edgy and cool to drink. I remember being 14 at a wedding in Germany and everyone very jovially encouraging me to have a small schnapps shot, and getting very drunk on absinthe at maybe 16/17 in France. No one really cared, and the lesson of the hangover was plenty to whip me into shape. [0]: https://www.statista.com/chart/5504/the-worst-countries-in-the-world-for-drunk-driving/ https://www.statista.com/chart/5504/the-worst-countries-in-t...
        _Nat_ 5y ago
        Might require some investigation and modeling to figure out a good cause. For example, the stats based on drunk-driving incidents compared to total might be misleading as the totals might vary significantly.. we'd probably want something more like [drunk-driving-incidents]-per-[driving-hour] for a starting point. Then probably explore stuff how frequently police catch people and typical consequences, how much folks in an area drink, how people drink (late nights at bars, or earlier at dinner?), if people in an area tend to car-pool, how the roadways might play in (safety features and well lit?; twisty backroads?), etc.. Really seems like there should be research on this sorta thing already, but not immediately seeing one on Google, which is odd.. But, yeah, dunno why folks'd do it in the first place. Seems like simple self-destructive behavior. --- [This study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3823314/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3823314/) seems to use a multi-linear-regression (rather than a causative model), but still looks neat. Overall, looks like they found that stricter regulations and beer-taxes significantly reduced drunk-driving incidents, while drivers-under-24, higher speed-limits, and unemployment had the opposite effect.
        5y ago
- kuschku 5y ago
  The difference is that the US has basically no public transport and the suburbs are designed so you're forced to drive. Drunk driving is a lot easier to avoid if you can get anywhere easily without driving at all.
- withinboredom 5y ago
  Here in the NL, it costs multiple thousands of EUR to get a drivers license. My friends won’t get behind the wheel after even one drink, just because it’s so clear how much driving is a privilege. In the states, it cost me less than $30. I knew people in the states who got a DUI, and their license (restricted) back after just a couple of weeks.

by _Nat_ 5y ago

dkersten 5y ago

Doesn't seem to be a major problem in europe, where many countries have a legal drinking age of 18 or even 16 for beer. Besides, the law doesn't stop teens who want to drink from drinking, only from going to bars and makes them jump through more hoops to get their alcohol.

_Nat_ 5y ago
It's a problem in the US even with laws making it difficult for teens to get alcohol. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056 https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056
- selectodude 5y ago
  >NHTSA estimates that minimum-drinking-age laws have saved 31,959 lives from 1975 to 2017. I wonder how many assaults and deaths have happened due to underage drinkers being too worried about going to the police or hospital due to their illegal consumption.
  - _Nat_ 5y ago
    And how many didn't need police-assistance or hospitalization because they were sober? If there's a perfect solution to ensuring that teens suffer no harm from alcohol, that'd be a neat thing! However broadly repealing prohibitions against teen-drinking wouldn't seem to be such a solution.
    - sebmellen 5y ago
      And yet, for all intents and purposes, it works fine in Europe to have the drinking age at 16/18. Perhaps even better than in the US! And with fewer drunk driving deaths as a percentage of fatal crashes [0]. Maybe because the driving age is slightly higher, training to become a driver is usually more rigorous, and max BAC levels are around 0.05%. Another aspect might be cultural — in my experience alcohol is much more taboo and simultaneously more likely to be abused by youth in the US than in Europe. This is probably because many grandmothers will give their grandkids a small glass of wine with dinner or a schnapps for New Years or other stuff like that. This de-stigmatizes the drug, thereby making it less edgy and cool to drink. I remember being 14 at a wedding in Germany and everyone very jovially encouraging me to have a small schnapps shot, and getting very drunk on absinthe at maybe 16/17 in France. No one really cared, and the lesson of the hangover was plenty to whip me into shape. [0]: https://www.statista.com/chart/5504/the-worst-countries-in-the-world-for-drunk-driving/ https://www.statista.com/chart/5504/the-worst-countries-in-t...
      - _Nat_ 5y ago
        Might require some investigation and modeling to figure out a good cause. For example, the stats based on drunk-driving incidents compared to total might be misleading as the totals might vary significantly.. we'd probably want something more like [drunk-driving-incidents]-per-[driving-hour] for a starting point. Then probably explore stuff how frequently police catch people and typical consequences, how much folks in an area drink, how people drink (late nights at bars, or earlier at dinner?), if people in an area tend to car-pool, how the roadways might play in (safety features and well lit?; twisty backroads?), etc.. Really seems like there should be research on this sorta thing already, but not immediately seeing one on Google, which is odd.. But, yeah, dunno why folks'd do it in the first place. Seems like simple self-destructive behavior. --- [This study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3823314/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3823314/) seems to use a multi-linear-regression (rather than a causative model), but still looks neat. Overall, looks like they found that stricter regulations and beer-taxes significantly reduced drunk-driving incidents, while drivers-under-24, higher speed-limits, and unemployment had the opposite effect.
      - 5y ago
kuschku 5y ago
The difference is that the US has basically no public transport and the suburbs are designed so you're forced to drive. Drunk driving is a lot easier to avoid if you can get anywhere easily without driving at all.
withinboredom 5y ago
Here in the NL, it costs multiple thousands of EUR to get a drivers license. My friends won’t get behind the wheel after even one drink, just because it’s so clear how much driving is a privilege. In the states, it cost me less than $30. I knew people in the states who got a DUI, and their license (restricted) back after just a couple of weeks.