6 ms·

Just let the teens drink.

by internet2000 5y ago

kibwen 5y ago
Here in the US you need to be 17 to enlist in the armed forces. If a 17 year-old is mature enough to go to war, to potentially kill and be killed, then they're old enough to drink.
- Igelau 5y ago
  Old enough to be drafted isn't old enough to drink. If that's not completely fucked, I don't know what is.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Old enough for the draft, old enough for a draught!
  - evgen 5y ago
    The last time anyone was drafted in the US the drinking laws in most states allowed 18 year olds to drink. So what is your point? I guess the government agrees with you: no one under 21 is allowed to drink and no one under 21 is being drafted.
- mjthompson 5y ago
  The counterargument to this is that there is evidence young people are neurologically not full adults at 18 years of age, and alcohol impedes neurological development. I have no doubt war also has neurological effects, but they don't seem to be age specific. It is challenging, if not impossible, to otherwise defend it. If someone has the possibility to choose (or be forced) to harm themselves and shorten their life in war, then why shouldn't a choice apply to alcohol?
  - dndndjdjfndbr 5y ago
    But the prohibition doesn’t stop teens from drinking, just makes it a crime.
    - mjthompson 5y ago
      The argument in response is that it is legitimate for the government to legislate to promote the health of its citizens, as we are seeing with lockdown laws in COVID-19. That people break lockdown laws is not a reason not to have lockdown laws. So the argument involves a bit more analysis than simply accepting that 'prohibition doesn’t stop teens from drinking'. So, this just invites the same perennial arguments frequently made in relation to drug decriminilisation. On my part, had the drinking age been 21 where I live, I wouldn't have started drinking until I was 21.
      - Igelau 5y ago
        > had the drinking age been 21 where I live, I wouldn't have started drinking until I was 21. You really don't know then. As someone who lives where it is 21, I'm qualified to tell you that you're very likely wrong. Before the "Source? Study?" parrots show up, you're darn right this is anecdotal. The "real data" is going to be from kids who aren't telling the truth.
      - ixacto 5y ago
        Tell that to the 73.6%[0] of Americans who are overweight or obese, but that the government doesn't care too much about it, in fact they subsidize it[1] via the farm bill & friends. Being overweight or obese will shorten your life [2]. Also the US gov doesn't care, as it's own dietary reccomendations differ from accepted nutritional guidelines e.g. Harvard nutrition plate[3]. IMO the government should not be in the business of policing one's health, or advocating for the people's health, as the USDA and associated agencies are demonstrably corrupted. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm [1] https://www.usda.gov/farmbill https://www.usda.gov/farmbill [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12513041/#:~:text=Conclusions%3A%20Obesity%20and%20overweight%20in,of%20death%20at%20older%20ages https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12513041/#:~:text=Conclusion.... [3] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-...
- coolspot 5y ago
  17 yo can’t be deployed to a warzone: > The US has signed an international agreement barring child soldiers. What that means in practicality is only that you are non-deployable until you turn 18. (you must be 18 to actually fight). > If you graduate High school early yes, you can join at 17 with parental consent, you can ship, train, you can join a unit and be active duty, you are just FLAGGED as non-deployable until your 18th birthday, when the flag is lifted. https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-join-the-US-military-at-17-Since-you-dont-graduate-from-high-school-until-the-age-of-18-can-you-go-active-duty-or-do-you-have-to-do-reserves-for-a-year https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-join-the-US-mili...
  - kibwen 5y ago
    Good catch. The point still stands, sadly.
    - RandallBrown 5y ago
      I believe 18 year olds are allowed to drink on Army bases.
      - Igelau 5y ago
        Only as long as said base isn't in the US.
        ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
        And the installation commander can keep it at 21. It’s not an inalienable right of younger than 21 service members.
- microtherion 5y ago
  And in the US, 14 year-olds can be tried as adults. I wonder whether that is ever applied to charges of underage drinking?
_Nat_ 5y ago
Most folks don't want to share the roads with drunken teenage drivers. Don't get me wrong -- some teens are probably more than responsible enough to be trusted with controlling their own drinking. However, it's those that aren't that're the concern. Parents generally don't want to have to worry about bars being allowed to serve their kids, either. Maybe not all parents feel that way, though I'd guess that those who'd be against their kids drinking would tend to have stronger feelings on the topic than those who'd be okay with it. Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinking-age.htm https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinki...
- dkersten 5y ago
  Doesn't seem to be a major problem in europe, where many countries have a legal drinking age of 18 or even 16 for beer. Besides, the law doesn't stop teens who want to drink from drinking, only from going to bars and makes them jump through more hoops to get their alcohol.
  - _Nat_ 5y ago
    It's a problem in the US even with laws making it difficult for teens to get alcohol. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056 https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056
    - selectodude 5y ago
      >NHTSA estimates that minimum-drinking-age laws have saved 31,959 lives from 1975 to 2017. I wonder how many assaults and deaths have happened due to underage drinkers being too worried about going to the police or hospital due to their illegal consumption.
      - _Nat_ 5y ago
        And how many didn't need police-assistance or hospitalization because they were sober? If there's a perfect solution to ensuring that teens suffer no harm from alcohol, that'd be a neat thing! However broadly repealing prohibitions against teen-drinking wouldn't seem to be such a solution.

Just let the teens drink.

Here in the US you need to be 17 to enlist in the armed forces. If a 17 year-old is mature enough to go to war, to potentially kill and be killed, then they're old enough to drink.

Igelau 5y ago
Old enough to be drafted isn't old enough to drink. If that's not completely fucked, I don't know what is.
- lupire 5y ago
  Old enough for the draft, old enough for a draught!
- evgen 5y ago
  The last time anyone was drafted in the US the drinking laws in most states allowed 18 year olds to drink. So what is your point? I guess the government agrees with you: no one under 21 is allowed to drink and no one under 21 is being drafted.
mjthompson 5y ago
The counterargument to this is that there is evidence young people are neurologically not full adults at 18 years of age, and alcohol impedes neurological development. I have no doubt war also has neurological effects, but they don't seem to be age specific. It is challenging, if not impossible, to otherwise defend it. If someone has the possibility to choose (or be forced) to harm themselves and shorten their life in war, then why shouldn't a choice apply to alcohol?
- dndndjdjfndbr 5y ago
  But the prohibition doesn’t stop teens from drinking, just makes it a crime.
  - mjthompson 5y ago
    The argument in response is that it is legitimate for the government to legislate to promote the health of its citizens, as we are seeing with lockdown laws in COVID-19. That people break lockdown laws is not a reason not to have lockdown laws. So the argument involves a bit more analysis than simply accepting that 'prohibition doesn’t stop teens from drinking'. So, this just invites the same perennial arguments frequently made in relation to drug decriminilisation. On my part, had the drinking age been 21 where I live, I wouldn't have started drinking until I was 21.
    - Igelau 5y ago
      > had the drinking age been 21 where I live, I wouldn't have started drinking until I was 21. You really don't know then. As someone who lives where it is 21, I'm qualified to tell you that you're very likely wrong. Before the "Source? Study?" parrots show up, you're darn right this is anecdotal. The "real data" is going to be from kids who aren't telling the truth.
    - ixacto 5y ago
      Tell that to the 73.6%[0] of Americans who are overweight or obese, but that the government doesn't care too much about it, in fact they subsidize it[1] via the farm bill & friends. Being overweight or obese will shorten your life [2]. Also the US gov doesn't care, as it's own dietary reccomendations differ from accepted nutritional guidelines e.g. Harvard nutrition plate[3]. IMO the government should not be in the business of policing one's health, or advocating for the people's health, as the USDA and associated agencies are demonstrably corrupted. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm [1] https://www.usda.gov/farmbill https://www.usda.gov/farmbill [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12513041/#:~:text=Conclusions%3A%20Obesity%20and%20overweight%20in,of%20death%20at%20older%20ages https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12513041/#:~:text=Conclusion.... [3] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-...
coolspot 5y ago
17 yo can’t be deployed to a warzone: > The US has signed an international agreement barring child soldiers. What that means in practicality is only that you are non-deployable until you turn 18. (you must be 18 to actually fight). > If you graduate High school early yes, you can join at 17 with parental consent, you can ship, train, you can join a unit and be active duty, you are just FLAGGED as non-deployable until your 18th birthday, when the flag is lifted. https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-join-the-US-military-at-17-Since-you-dont-graduate-from-high-school-until-the-age-of-18-can-you-go-active-duty-or-do-you-have-to-do-reserves-for-a-year https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-join-the-US-mili...
- kibwen 5y ago
  Good catch. The point still stands, sadly.
  - RandallBrown 5y ago
    I believe 18 year olds are allowed to drink on Army bases.
    - Igelau 5y ago
      Only as long as said base isn't in the US.
      - ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
        And the installation commander can keep it at 21. It’s not an inalienable right of younger than 21 service members.
microtherion 5y ago
And in the US, 14 year-olds can be tried as adults. I wonder whether that is ever applied to charges of underage drinking?

_Nat_ 5y ago

Most folks don't want to share the roads with drunken teenage drivers. Don't get me wrong -- some teens are probably more than responsible enough to be trusted with controlling their own drinking. However, it's those that aren't that're the concern. Parents generally don't want to have to worry about bars being allowed to serve their kids, either. Maybe not all parents feel that way, though I'd guess that those who'd be against their kids drinking would tend to have stronger feelings on the topic than those who'd be okay with it. Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinking-age.htm https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/minimum-legal-drinki...

dkersten 5y ago
Doesn't seem to be a major problem in europe, where many countries have a legal drinking age of 18 or even 16 for beer. Besides, the law doesn't stop teens who want to drink from drinking, only from going to bars and makes them jump through more hoops to get their alcohol.
- _Nat_ 5y ago
  It's a problem in the US even with laws making it difficult for teens to get alcohol. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056 https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#age-5056
  - selectodude 5y ago
    >NHTSA estimates that minimum-drinking-age laws have saved 31,959 lives from 1975 to 2017. I wonder how many assaults and deaths have happened due to underage drinkers being too worried about going to the police or hospital due to their illegal consumption.
    - _Nat_ 5y ago
      And how many didn't need police-assistance or hospitalization because they were sober? If there's a perfect solution to ensuring that teens suffer no harm from alcohol, that'd be a neat thing! However broadly repealing prohibitions against teen-drinking wouldn't seem to be such a solution.