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> People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know. Yes, albeit at extremely high cost, which has always limited its u

by ericd 5y ago

> People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know. Yes, albeit at extremely high cost, which has always limited its utility. Maybe you haven't been keeping a close eye on progress in space tech, but SpaceX is working towards reducing cost per kilogram by two orders of magnitude. 1/100th! Compared to the already relatively reasonably priced Falcon 9! And they're just about to do an orbital test of the system (Starship+Super Heavy Booster). This is after decades of government contractor launch providers like ULA happily milking the government with cost-plus contracts, where the costs only ever seemed to go the wrong way. Blue Origin is aiming to be competitive with them with New Glenn, also a massive cargo-carrying rocket. Certainly not there yet, but they don't seem to be aiming for the space tourism flights for the superrich as an endpoint. Virgin Galactic, shrug, but the sister company Virgin Orbit wing is doing interesting things with smallsat launches from a 747. These are not all useless vanity projects.

teslafire124 5y ago
The question is what is the end goal? Because you are right. It does cost an exorbitant amount of money and resources. How will it benefit anyone beyond billionaires and corporations? A few satellite launches is literally the only thing I see being a benefit. The only other thing I see is maybe space travel but it is going to be in the realm of novelty/space tourism for a long long time.
- ericd 5y ago
  The benefits are mostly somewhat (or extremely) long term. Most immediately, there’s always the “internet for literally everyone” aspect, where even remote villages will be able to get access to the world’s information. Much longer term, if we don’t develop a comfort with working in and building in with space, and we don’t wipe ourselves out some other way, we will certainly be wiped out at some point by an asteroid impact, massive volcanic eruption, or some other major catastrophe. All of our eggs are in the Earth’s basket. Offworld mining wouldn’t pollute/despoil Earth, and elements that are rare here can be found in very high concentrations in asteroids. (A single asteroid could contain the same amount of platinum as has been mined in all of history). It potentially opens up the ability to do things like deploying massive, thin solar shades as a way to try to slow global warming. Large technical challenges spin off lots of new tech that get used elsewhere. The last one that comes to mind, though I’m sure there are many others, is that it’s a big achievement that humans can be proud of together. It makes it clear that we can do more than just squabble over little pieces of this planet, and help us look outward. I think that that kind of inspiration shouldn’t be discounted. And the point is that if SpaceX succeeds, it will no longer take exorbitant amounts of money and resources. It’ll become extremely routine and affordable even to regular people. I’d try not to view everything in terms of a power struggle with billionaires and corporations sucking up all the resources, that’s going to cast a dim pall on literally everything.
  - teslafire124 5y ago
    The problem is that Space X is a business. And while I would love to believe that they can bring about an egalitarian future in space, the main goal of any private corporation is to maximize profits. And it doesn't help alleviate my concerns that Elon is at the helm. But at this point, I don't think their progress is going to be obstructed too much so I hope that they do achieve long term goals that ultimately help humanity as a whole.
    - ericd 5y ago
      That’s kind of not the reason they’re building SpaceX, and that’s why they’ve stated that they don’t want to go public until after they reach Mars - they don’t want people breathing down their neck about their (probably unprofitable) goal of helping humanity become multi planetary. Rich people usually amass wealth to give them the power to do what they want to do, but if you’re directly building a business to do what you want to do, and you already have enough money, then maximizing profit isn’t the goal, having it do what you want it to do is. Money is necessary for that, but it’s just the means to the end. But if you do that really well, then usually it’s worth a good amount.

by ericd 5y ago

teslafire124 5y ago

The question is what is the end goal? Because you are right. It does cost an exorbitant amount of money and resources. How will it benefit anyone beyond billionaires and corporations? A few satellite launches is literally the only thing I see being a benefit. The only other thing I see is maybe space travel but it is going to be in the realm of novelty/space tourism for a long long time.

ericd 5y ago
The benefits are mostly somewhat (or extremely) long term. Most immediately, there’s always the “internet for literally everyone” aspect, where even remote villages will be able to get access to the world’s information. Much longer term, if we don’t develop a comfort with working in and building in with space, and we don’t wipe ourselves out some other way, we will certainly be wiped out at some point by an asteroid impact, massive volcanic eruption, or some other major catastrophe. All of our eggs are in the Earth’s basket. Offworld mining wouldn’t pollute/despoil Earth, and elements that are rare here can be found in very high concentrations in asteroids. (A single asteroid could contain the same amount of platinum as has been mined in all of history). It potentially opens up the ability to do things like deploying massive, thin solar shades as a way to try to slow global warming. Large technical challenges spin off lots of new tech that get used elsewhere. The last one that comes to mind, though I’m sure there are many others, is that it’s a big achievement that humans can be proud of together. It makes it clear that we can do more than just squabble over little pieces of this planet, and help us look outward. I think that that kind of inspiration shouldn’t be discounted. And the point is that if SpaceX succeeds, it will no longer take exorbitant amounts of money and resources. It’ll become extremely routine and affordable even to regular people. I’d try not to view everything in terms of a power struggle with billionaires and corporations sucking up all the resources, that’s going to cast a dim pall on literally everything.
- teslafire124 5y ago
  The problem is that Space X is a business. And while I would love to believe that they can bring about an egalitarian future in space, the main goal of any private corporation is to maximize profits. And it doesn't help alleviate my concerns that Elon is at the helm. But at this point, I don't think their progress is going to be obstructed too much so I hope that they do achieve long term goals that ultimately help humanity as a whole.
  - ericd 5y ago
    That’s kind of not the reason they’re building SpaceX, and that’s why they’ve stated that they don’t want to go public until after they reach Mars - they don’t want people breathing down their neck about their (probably unprofitable) goal of helping humanity become multi planetary. Rich people usually amass wealth to give them the power to do what they want to do, but if you’re directly building a business to do what you want to do, and you already have enough money, then maximizing profit isn’t the goal, having it do what you want it to do is. Money is necessary for that, but it’s just the means to the end. But if you do that really well, then usually it’s worth a good amount.