4 ms·

“Pilots” is the key word. There are not X-15 “passengers” so there’s not a comparison to be had imho.

zamadatix 5y ago
While a good point to base it on at first glance there is going to have to be a deep debate about at which point you really are/aren't a pilot and who gets to decide what that point is. Per BO this was the crew, though a lot don't want to see it that way. Rocket launches, planes, and boats all have automation driven piloting now - and increasingly so. If being named the crew isn't enough then exactly what is the cutoff for being a "true" crewman of a vessel? And if you apply that cutoff to any other modern automated rocket launch system is anyone ever going to be an astronaut again then?
- austinheap 5y ago
  The X-15 only has one seat. No one is saying Southwest passengers are “pilots” because of auto-pilot, though.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    1 seat or not there is still criteria you're using to decide if the person in that seat is a pilot or not. I have a feeling you wouldn't call the rider of a fully automated single seater Southwest plane a pilot just based on it having 1 seat - it'd be more muddy than that as the true reasons you call the X-15 piloted are more than simple seat count. X-15 case is easier to quickly judge as the pilot still has a ton of flight control but understand there is still deeper criteria you're basing "pilot" or "passenger" on it's just more obvious. Now bringing this back around to the reason planes come up in the first place - who decides if the 3 listed as crew by BO are "crew enough" and would that criteria also block most we called "astronaut" prior to the BO flight. Rocket flights are extremely hands off and automated even compared to other heavily automated vessels these days yet that's not what has triggered the reaction that these folks aren't "true" crew.
wang_li 5y ago
Harrison Schmidt, notwithstanding his title being Lunar Module Pilot, never piloted anything. He was a passenger who read some gauges aloud and flipped some switches when instructed. We still call him an astronaut.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  Flight engineers simply read gauges and flipped switches, but were still considered part of an airplane's crew: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_engineer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_engineer

While a good point to base it on at first glance there is going to have to be a deep debate about at which point you really are/aren't a pilot and who gets to decide what that point is. Per BO this was the crew, though a lot don't want to see it that way. Rocket launches, planes, and boats all have automation driven piloting now - and increasingly so. If being named the crew isn't enough then exactly what is the cutoff for being a "true" crewman of a vessel? And if you apply that cutoff to any other modern automated rocket launch system is anyone ever going to be an astronaut again then?

austinheap 5y ago
The X-15 only has one seat. No one is saying Southwest passengers are “pilots” because of auto-pilot, though.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  1 seat or not there is still criteria you're using to decide if the person in that seat is a pilot or not. I have a feeling you wouldn't call the rider of a fully automated single seater Southwest plane a pilot just based on it having 1 seat - it'd be more muddy than that as the true reasons you call the X-15 piloted are more than simple seat count. X-15 case is easier to quickly judge as the pilot still has a ton of flight control but understand there is still deeper criteria you're basing "pilot" or "passenger" on it's just more obvious. Now bringing this back around to the reason planes come up in the first place - who decides if the 3 listed as crew by BO are "crew enough" and would that criteria also block most we called "astronaut" prior to the BO flight. Rocket flights are extremely hands off and automated even compared to other heavily automated vessels these days yet that's not what has triggered the reaction that these folks aren't "true" crew.

wang_li 5y ago

Harrison Schmidt, notwithstanding his title being Lunar Module Pilot, never piloted anything. He was a passenger who read some gauges aloud and flipped some switches when instructed. We still call him an astronaut.

throw0101a 5y ago
Flight engineers simply read gauges and flipped switches, but were still considered part of an airplane's crew: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_engineer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_engineer