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Striking to End Suicide Shifts, Frito-Lay Workers Ask People to Drop the Doritos
- sneak 5y agoSuicide is a good description, as that is another thing people willingly and voluntarily opt in to. There are a zillion jobs available in the US right now; anyone in a bad/abusive one is choosing it (or stuck in a remote locale for other reasons). I'm glad that the number of options are giving these workers leverage to tell their employer to make things better.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rl3 5y ago>... anyone in a bad/abusive one is choosing it. That's often not how it works.
- mhh__ 5y agoA very large proportion of people who commit suicide are severely mentally ill.
- soheil 5y agoDo you genuinely believe suicide can occur when initiated by an otherwise mentally and physically healthy adult? I feel like people like you tend to think suicide is a type of taboo and thoughts of it automatically get you classified as "mentally ill". Not advocating for suicide, of course, just trying to understand others' perspective. If that's true then you shouldn't keep saying "mentally ill" to imply there is an independent cause, you can just say anyone who is thinking about suicide is just suicidal and that is bad in itself. Because right now it sounds like doublespeak.
- jdavis703 5y agoThinking about suicide does not make one suicidal. There are plenty of times where I think “I’d rather be dead” but have no urge to actually act on it. This is far different from thinking “I’d rather be dead, let me start preparing.”
- taurath 5y agoSuicide is a literal term here since a line worker died literally on the production line and they just had them MOVE THE BODY instead of stopping work. Also being forced working during and after a fire in the factory that was filled with smoke. https://www.cjonline.com/story/opinion/2021/07/02/frito-lay-employee-topeka-shares-complaints-working-conditions/7838411002/ https://www.cjonline.com/story/opinion/2021/07/02/frito-lay-...
- gjs278 5y agoit makes no logical no sense to not move the body and keep working. do you want the cops to setup a memorial every time there’s a car crash on the highway? scrape them up and move along
- senectus1 5y agobloody hell. This shit doesn't happen in australia but I'm going to boycot on principle.
- sneak 5y agoThey weren't forced; that's not what that word means.
- taurath 5y agoCoerced with their livelihood on the line by an entity with much more power than them to negotiate, or forced for short. Don’t be pedantic
- systemvoltage 5y agoAnother thing is we're extrapolating small tidbits of news to the general population. Just because Frito-Lay workers are striking does not indicate any general trends. In order to deduce anything - we need to look at broader statistical data. There must be some name for this phenomenon where we hear a news story and we immediately generalize it. Anecdotally, I know several friends (with arts background) that have found jobs now and really well paying ones (galleries). The arts business hasn't seen a boom like this before. There is so much cash in the economy, thanks to printing $18 trillion last year.
- dpc59 5y agoMy friends that tattoo aren't getting automatized anytime soon.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago> There is so much cash in the economy, thanks to printing $18 trillion last year. Good ol' trickle up economics at work.
- cr__ 5y agoI’d encourage you to think about why you responded to this article about human misery by searching for reasons the humans deserve to be miserable.
- galangalalgol 5y agonot sure about their motivation, but they made a good point. We need to educate poor working class that there is a shortage of labor so they can ask for more. For capitalists, you can view this as quickly snapping labor costs to actual values. It is an efficiency boost.
- otde 5y agoThis is quite the paternalist view of working class people — is this not a concerted effort by working class professionals, asking for more? Considering the frequent remoteness of factory locations and the costs (monetary, social, etc) of moving elsewhere, striking for better conditions seems like a pretty educated decision, one which reflects an intimate understanding of the multiplicative effects of collective bargaining. W/R/T the top-level comment: to frame coercive forces (isolation, geography, exploitation, and so on) as matters purely of individual choices speaks to a deep rejection of systems thinking that’s both a. unproductive in a conversation about labor practices resulting from intricate and brutal edifices of human suffering, and b. misses the point of collective action, which has over the course of multiple centuries chipped away at the brutality of said edifices, strike by strike.
- sneak 5y agoYou seem to have misunderstood my comment.
- dpc59 5y agoA lot of people have a really shitty negotiating position. They're barely literate, living paycheck to paycheck and raising children. Are you really choosing your job when your options are super limited and you don't have the means to invest in yourself?
- kibblesalad 5y ago>barely literate, living paycheck to paycheck and raising children How about we focus on the issue that we're paying people working 40 hours a week, every week, for months on end not making enough money to reasonably survive?
- guerrilla 5y agoThat's because of their bad negotiating position though, which is the point. We can do both, since one is the partial cause of the other.
- avgDev 5y agoThis. HN skews towards professionals and people with decent negotiating power. Many people scrape paycheck to paycheck all their life. First, it is kids and housing, then as they age health. Plus, once you are 50 and all you did was factory work or gig work....your negotiating position is "I will do anything to get to the retirement".
- sneak 5y agoIt is a mistake to conflate the truth of my statements with the circumstances of the speaker.
- p1necone 5y agoYep. And even if everybody met whatever arbitrary "diligent/hardworking/intelligent" line that the commenter you're replying to requires in order to treat people like fucking human beings there still wouldn't be enough jobs paying a livable wage to employ everyone. Their line of argument is naive at best.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoThis is what happens when we let CEOs pretend to be gods who establish a directive for all subordinate management to achieve unattainable goals. They then become sociopaths and psychotically treat people like garbage. This comes back around to how general labor places "can't find anyone." Well in the words of Bill Engvall: "Here's your sign..."
- avgDev 5y agoI don't think this is on CEOs. I grew up pretty poor and now make very good money. However, if someone was always sheltered they are so disconnected from reality they have no idea what is a livable wage. It is capitalism that creates this dynamic, not CEOs or business owners. This is why governments have minimum wage. Not sure if this is still the case but walmart was helping emoployees get on food stamps....tax payers were literally funding mcdonalds and walmart workers. The bottom of the work force does not have much negotiating power.
- mattcwilson 5y agoSorry, are you suggesting that the CEO of PepsiCo is somehow powerless to answer the pleas and protestations of the strikers?
- avgDev 5y agoNo, they definitely can. I just don't expect someone who cannot relate at all to care. I would want everyone to get a livable wage.
- genocidicbunny 5y agoI'm surprised that none of the workers have decided to take it out on the managerial or executive level at the company. Might as well take a few of the people who made you want to commit suicide with you.
- gjs278 5y agonah I kinda like doritos. gatorade too. drink tons of it. just half ass your job and get fired if it’s really that bad.
- beprogrammed 5y ago60 hour cap! Ha. I mean who wouldn't want to spend every waking hour at the sweltering chip factory for basic rate.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoBasic rate with 2% raises for the next two years. Frito Lay execs must be puzzled why the plebs aren't throwing themselves at the gate for such a great deal.
- pinewurst 5y agoAccording to the company, “This is what the union proposed for wage increases, and Frito-Lay accepted the union's proposal.”
- throwawaycities 5y agoYes that’s what the company said, the same company the appears to be over working employees in unsafe working conditions, so it shouldn’t come as a shock the company statement is bellied by the fact the employees are still on strike and the union is still negotiating.
- 29083011397778 5y agoHow many proposals were given a flat "No" before this one was offered?
- david38 5y agoYes, an offer under duress isn’t a real offer. It’s an attempt to not lose more. This reminds me of a rape case where the girl asked the guy to use a condom. Getting raped was going to happen. She wanted to at least not get AIDS. In court, he argued it wasn’t rape because she asked him to use a condom, therefore consented. The court of course wasn’t having it.
- bitexploder 5y agoThey do make a decent amount more than minimum wage. The pay is only part of it. Work conditions are a major factory.
- londons_explore 5y agoThe last few paragraphs seem interesting... Looks like the company met the pay demands and the working condition changes the union asked for, yet the workers still aren't happy. Is there something else up? Is the union not asking for the right things? Are there other unreported conditions or requests?
- djeikyb 5y agoProbably the union proposals were not actually met. NPR uses the wording "According to the company".
- missedthecue 5y agoWhy isn't the union disputing it then?
- magicalist 5y ago> Why isn't the union disputing it then? > NPR was unable to reach union officials
- djeikyb 5y agoClearly, they are: the strike continues.
- dbingham 5y agoThe last few paragraphs are quoting the company. My experience of labor disputes is that companies are often less than honest when engaged in them. I wouldn't trust their self reported records in this case. But also, it wouldn't be very surprising if the union drove a weaker bargain than the workers wanted. A lot of unions have gotten pretty toothless. I would guess both factors are at play here.
- snomad 5y agoYeah... > The plant, which is one of 30 in the U.S., employs about 850 people. Yet, officials said, only about 20 — approximately 2% — averaged over 60 hours per week. > "Our records indicate 19 employees worked 84 hours in a given work week in 2021, with 16 of those as a result of employees volunteering for overtime and only 3 being required to work," the company said on Monday. That's not even the normal qualified/hedging language, that's pretty cut and dry.
- seph-reed 5y agoThis is not the kind of thing that should require striking. The whole point of government is strength in numbers; protecting small groups of people from being abused. I'm not optimistic, but I really am hoping that we can get our capitalism better regulated some day. At this point, it's not even really capitalism: there's no real competition, and the investments on short term gains are drying up. The field's of opportunity have been ransacked by short cons. Nothing left to do but invest keeping the short cons out.
- jimt1234 5y agoWhen I was a kid growing up in Middle America (I'm in my 50s now), it seemed like people really cared about these types of labor issues. I remember most adults took interest in the working conditions at the local auto plant, even if they didn't work there. Now, it feels like, at best, people just don't care ("Pfff. I don't work there, why should I care?"), or at worst, people blame workers ("Bunch of lazy bums!", "Be grateful you have a job at all!", "Should've gone to college!") I'm sure there's a list of reasons for this shift in attitude, but I can tell you that it's real, and kinda depressing.
- inter_netuser 5y agowhat are the reasons for this, in your view?
- chillwaves 5y agoNarcissism becoming the mainstream culture of America.
- jimt1234 5y agoIMHO, two things: (1) The gradual destruction of labor unions. When I was a kid, labor unions were strong, seemed like every adult was part of one. And there existed a "brotherhood" amongst the various unions. When one union went on strike, the other unions would wholeheartedly support them. And (2), pro-business bias in reporting (don't wanna upset PepsiCo, a massive sponsor!). Here's a great example: https://www.google.com/search?q=frito-lay+strike+site:foxnews.com https://www.google.com/search?q=frito-lay+strike+site:foxnew... . Nothing about the Frito-Lay strike. Fox News is the ONLY news source in Middle America. I don't feel like other major sources are much better; they've got sponsors to please, too.
- threatofrain 5y agoThere's also Google News search if we just want to focus on news outlets. https://news.google.com/search?q=frito-lay+strike https://news.google.com/search?q=frito-lay+strike > I don't feel like other major sources are much better; they've got sponsors to please, too. In contrast to Fox, we can see coverage from NYT, Wapo, Newsweek, CNN, Independent, and many small outlets. > Fox News is the ONLY news source in Middle America. Aren't OANN and Newsmax competing against Fox for the same audience?
- djbebs 5y agoJust fire them and be done with it. Do not negotiate with unions.