4 ms·

You're asking people to suffering annoyances and spend lots of money when the average income has been going down for 40 years. I'm surprised you're surprised.

by dmead 5y ago

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> average income has been going down for 40 years Not true [1]. This is true across economic strata, with real stagnation being the plague of our most destitute. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI
mastax 5y ago
It hasn't? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N
scoofy 5y ago
Living more efficiently obviously saves money. The absurdities of what's happening is literally the Sierra Club opposing density in San Francisco. The environmentalist are literally opposing density across California. Los Angeles, to San Francisco, to Marin County, under the banner of "preservation," we're going to destroy the climate. I just, i cannot believe this is happening. They same people who would hand wash a peanut butter jar, to recycle it, are the exact same people who are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon.
- nwiswell 5y ago
  > I just, i cannot believe this is happening. This isn't hard to understand. The Sierra Club is made up of legitimate environmentalists, but they also care about their organization and their livelihoods, and many of the major donors to the Sierra Club are property owners in San Francisco (or Marin, or LA). Property values are obviously negatively impacted by development / densification, and so to avoid alienating donors, for whom opposing development is the single most important economic issue, the Sierra Club is dutifully NIMBYist. I can assure you the Sierra Club would be fine with densification in Africa or whatever.
  - scoofy 5y ago
    > and complete symbolism without substance on the left.
    - nwiswell 5y ago
      There's plenty of substance. It's just hypocritical for the Sierra Club to pretend that the motive is environmental. There isn't any cause for shock. Given the incentives at play this is expected. How much financial suffering would you accept to put a dent in global warming? For most people it's not much. The good news is, it's easy to predict that the Sierra Club is going to eventually lose on this issue. Property values are so high that many people are totally shut out of the property market and a political storm is gathering. Hopefully, by the time the dam breaks and real urbanization finally arrives on the West Coast, it's not too late to matter.
      - scoofy 5y ago
        This isn't about the Sierra Club. It's about the blue cities in general. I've been to transit alternatives infrastructure meetings in Austin, NYC, and SF. They are all driven by parking spaces and reducing peak traffic. It's absurd to see the very same people who lose their mind at the idea of America dropping out of the Paris Climate Accord, are exactly the same people who think we should impose minimum parking requirements on new buildings, block a bike share and safe bike infrastructure because the bike are ugly and take parking space away, and argue that BRT is terrible and will never work, because they won't use it.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >They same people who would hand wash a peanut butter jar, to recycle it, are the exact same people who are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon. Scoofy, I cannot overstate how much pure, cynical joy I feel after reading your rants here. Thank you for cutting through the bullshit; you're doing God's work.
  - scoofy 5y ago
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -chuckles, "I'm in danger"
- mariusor 5y ago
  > are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon. I would imagine they are creating suburban cities designed for alternative means of transportation.

You're asking people to suffering annoyances and spend lots of money when the average income has been going down for 40 years. I'm surprised you're surprised.

by dmead 5y ago

You're asking people to suffering annoyances and spend lots of money when the average income has been going down for 40 years. I'm surprised you're surprised.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> average income has been going down for 40 years Not true [1]. This is true across economic strata, with real stagnation being the plague of our most destitute. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI

mastax 5y ago

It hasn't? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

scoofy 5y ago

Living more efficiently obviously saves money. The absurdities of what's happening is literally the Sierra Club opposing density in San Francisco. The environmentalist are literally opposing density across California. Los Angeles, to San Francisco, to Marin County, under the banner of "preservation," we're going to destroy the climate. I just, i cannot believe this is happening. They same people who would hand wash a peanut butter jar, to recycle it, are the exact same people who are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon.

nwiswell 5y ago
> I just, i cannot believe this is happening. This isn't hard to understand. The Sierra Club is made up of legitimate environmentalists, but they also care about their organization and their livelihoods, and many of the major donors to the Sierra Club are property owners in San Francisco (or Marin, or LA). Property values are obviously negatively impacted by development / densification, and so to avoid alienating donors, for whom opposing development is the single most important economic issue, the Sierra Club is dutifully NIMBYist. I can assure you the Sierra Club would be fine with densification in Africa or whatever.
- scoofy 5y ago
  > and complete symbolism without substance on the left.
  - nwiswell 5y ago
    There's plenty of substance. It's just hypocritical for the Sierra Club to pretend that the motive is environmental. There isn't any cause for shock. Given the incentives at play this is expected. How much financial suffering would you accept to put a dent in global warming? For most people it's not much. The good news is, it's easy to predict that the Sierra Club is going to eventually lose on this issue. Property values are so high that many people are totally shut out of the property market and a political storm is gathering. Hopefully, by the time the dam breaks and real urbanization finally arrives on the West Coast, it's not too late to matter.
    - scoofy 5y ago
      This isn't about the Sierra Club. It's about the blue cities in general. I've been to transit alternatives infrastructure meetings in Austin, NYC, and SF. They are all driven by parking spaces and reducing peak traffic. It's absurd to see the very same people who lose their mind at the idea of America dropping out of the Paris Climate Accord, are exactly the same people who think we should impose minimum parking requirements on new buildings, block a bike share and safe bike infrastructure because the bike are ugly and take parking space away, and argue that BRT is terrible and will never work, because they won't use it.
AussieWog93 5y ago
>They same people who would hand wash a peanut butter jar, to recycle it, are the exact same people who are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon. Scoofy, I cannot overstate how much pure, cynical joy I feel after reading your rants here. Thank you for cutting through the bullshit; you're doing God's work.
- scoofy 5y ago
  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -chuckles, "I'm in danger"
mariusor 5y ago
> are literally creating suburban cities designed for burning carbon. I would imagine they are creating suburban cities designed for alternative means of transportation.