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What’s described in the article as the “Israel lobby” would be better described as the “Pro-Israel lobby,” as it consists largely of Americans democratically ex

What’s described in the article as the “Israel lobby” would be better described as the “Pro-Israel lobby,” as it consists largely of Americans democratically expressing their preferences, rather than a foreign entity buying influence.

MikeUt 5y ago
That's stretching the meaning of "democratic". From the report: The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world. Thus, one of the three main branches of the U.S. government is firmly committed to supporting Israel. As former Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC) noted as he was leaving office, “You can’t have an Israeli policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here.” Small wonder that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon once told an American audience. “When people ask me how they can help Israel, I tell them—Help AIPAC.” [..] The Lobby also has significant leverage over the Executive branch. That power derives in part from the influence Jewish voters have on presidential elections. Despite their small numbers in the population (less than 3 percent), they make large campaign donations to candidates from both parties. The Washington Post once estimated that Democratic presidential candidates “depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money.”
- bitcurious 5y ago
  > That power derives in part from the influence Jewish voters have on presidential elections. The definition of democratic. This constituency has an issue they care about, and votes for it. Everyone has a top issue. Some folks vote based on gun control. Some vote based on healthcare. Some vote based on foreign policy. Everyone only gets one Most Important Thing, and if they organize around it shit happens. If there was a constituency that cared as much about changing our Israeli policy then things would change, but alas the folks complaining don’t actually care very much. If you want a parallel example, look at how the US foreign policy towards Cuba is successfully shaped by a rather small number of Cuban Americans in Florida. They care, they advocate, shit happens.
  - MikeUt 5y ago
    > The definition of democratic. If you'd continue reading, the following two sentences explain that "influence": Despite their small numbers in the population (less than 3 percent), they make large campaign donations to candidates from both parties. The Washington Post once estimated that Democratic presidential candidates “depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money.”
  - unmole 5y ago
    The difference is that Cuban Americans are not advocating on behalf of a foreign government.
unmole 5y ago
But things are a bit complicated by the fact that many of those Americans have the Right to Return to Israel with many already holding Israeli citizenship.
- wetjen 5y ago
  I think there’s more nuance here than you realize. Some Americans are indeed of Jewish descent and could benefit from the right to return should they wish to. But those people of Jewish descent pale in comparison to the non-Jewish Protestant Christians who also support Israel. It’s interesting that so many Christians support Israel because for hundreds of years that wasn’t the case. Think the crusades and bograms around the world. Many Christians formerly embraced Replacement Theology, which basically says Christians replace the Jewish people’s in God’s eyes. This lead to all sorts of appalling behavior by Christians against Jews over the last two thousand years. Many modern Protestant Christians instead believe the Jews have a legal and valid agreement with God. And that bringing harm to a Jewish person or their ancestral lands will be punished by God. So, this is why many red state Christians support the state of Israel and the Jewish people.
  - evilnaturedrblx 5y ago
    Many nations have compulsory military service for up to one year: Brazil, Estonia, France, Greece, Qatar, Sweden, and Turkey Nations that require one year of military service include: Algeria, Bolivia, Colombia, Guatemala, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Mongolia, Paraguay, Russia, Taiwan, Tunisia, and Uzbekistan. Several nations require military service of no more than 18 months: Azerbaijan, Belarus, Benin, Cambodia, Cote d’Ivoire, Cyprus, Egypt, Georgia, Kuwait, Laos, Morocco, and the United Arab Emirates. All of them aught to preclude you from US citizenship or dual citizenship status with the US. (Israel isn't listed for the same reason UVA isn't listed on the top 10 list of US party schools. No professionals.)
    - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
      France does not have compulsory military service for, what, 25 years?

MikeUt 5y ago

That's stretching the meaning of "democratic". From the report: The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world. Thus, one of the three main branches of the U.S. government is firmly committed to supporting Israel. As former Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC) noted as he was leaving office, “You can’t have an Israeli policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here.” Small wonder that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon once told an American audience. “When people ask me how they can help Israel, I tell them—Help AIPAC.” [..] The Lobby also has significant leverage over the Executive branch. That power derives in part from the influence Jewish voters have on presidential elections. Despite their small numbers in the population (less than 3 percent), they make large campaign donations to candidates from both parties. The Washington Post once estimated that Democratic presidential candidates “depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money.”

bitcurious 5y ago
> That power derives in part from the influence Jewish voters have on presidential elections. The definition of democratic. This constituency has an issue they care about, and votes for it. Everyone has a top issue. Some folks vote based on gun control. Some vote based on healthcare. Some vote based on foreign policy. Everyone only gets one Most Important Thing, and if they organize around it shit happens. If there was a constituency that cared as much about changing our Israeli policy then things would change, but alas the folks complaining don’t actually care very much. If you want a parallel example, look at how the US foreign policy towards Cuba is successfully shaped by a rather small number of Cuban Americans in Florida. They care, they advocate, shit happens.
- MikeUt 5y ago
  > The definition of democratic. If you'd continue reading, the following two sentences explain that "influence": Despite their small numbers in the population (less than 3 percent), they make large campaign donations to candidates from both parties. The Washington Post once estimated that Democratic presidential candidates “depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money.”
- unmole 5y ago
  The difference is that Cuban Americans are not advocating on behalf of a foreign government.

unmole 5y ago

But things are a bit complicated by the fact that many of those Americans have the Right to Return to Israel with many already holding Israeli citizenship.

wetjen 5y ago
I think there’s more nuance here than you realize. Some Americans are indeed of Jewish descent and could benefit from the right to return should they wish to. But those people of Jewish descent pale in comparison to the non-Jewish Protestant Christians who also support Israel. It’s interesting that so many Christians support Israel because for hundreds of years that wasn’t the case. Think the crusades and bograms around the world. Many Christians formerly embraced Replacement Theology, which basically says Christians replace the Jewish people’s in God’s eyes. This lead to all sorts of appalling behavior by Christians against Jews over the last two thousand years. Many modern Protestant Christians instead believe the Jews have a legal and valid agreement with God. And that bringing harm to a Jewish person or their ancestral lands will be punished by God. So, this is why many red state Christians support the state of Israel and the Jewish people.
- evilnaturedrblx 5y ago
  Many nations have compulsory military service for up to one year: Brazil, Estonia, France, Greece, Qatar, Sweden, and Turkey Nations that require one year of military service include: Algeria, Bolivia, Colombia, Guatemala, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Mongolia, Paraguay, Russia, Taiwan, Tunisia, and Uzbekistan. Several nations require military service of no more than 18 months: Azerbaijan, Belarus, Benin, Cambodia, Cote d’Ivoire, Cyprus, Egypt, Georgia, Kuwait, Laos, Morocco, and the United Arab Emirates. All of them aught to preclude you from US citizenship or dual citizenship status with the US. (Israel isn't listed for the same reason UVA isn't listed on the top 10 list of US party schools. No professionals.)
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    France does not have compulsory military service for, what, 25 years?