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Why are you afraid to admit that your religion prohibits homosexuality? I'm Muslim, and we're not scared to say it.

by azth 5y ago

trasz 5y ago
Two reasons: first, we know some religions do that, and we also know it can be got rid of and nothing bad happens. Second: because if your religion requires one to be a criminal, a civilized society will make sure it’s either fixed, or disappears.
- azth 5y ago
  Religion can be gotten rid off and nothing bad happens? I take it you haven't seen what the likes of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler did. No, we're here today because of religion. You owe many of the luxuries of modern life because of the Golden Age of Islam. Your definition of "criminal" just happens to follow the latest fad of the day. Read https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin for a very brief overview.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I take it you haven't seen what the likes of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler did. Hitler leveraged religion as a tool rather than getting rid of it, and did pretty much the same kind of things as the others (which is individually worse is debatable, though Hitler generally “wins” that competition), so he kind of pretty clearly demonstratee that “getting rid of religion” isn't the source of the problem.
    - azth 5y ago
      Seems you're picking at straws. Hitler hated Judaism and Christianity. Thankfully (and unfortunately), history speaks for itself. The worst and most horrid atrocities and mass murdering were committed under atheistic anti-religion regimes. Clearly, "getting rid of religion" is a straw man that some people like to invoke because they pretend to live in a fairy tale. We're seeing it today in the atheist West. They got rid of religion, only to replace it with tribalism, racism, identity politics, etc. That's human nature, leave them up to their own device and they will use whatever means to gain power and influence. Believing getting rid of religion is somehow going to fix things has been proven wrong time and time again. Not to mention that it is inherent in humans to believe in the One Creator.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Why are you afraid to admit that your religion prohibits homosexuality? Christianity doesn't have a single unitary rule of sexuality and not all forms of Christianity prohibit homosexuality, even in terms of thr general doctrine of organized groups. And even within organized groups whose official doctrine says one thing, there are dissenters on various points, and homosexuality is a common one. Moreover, I’ve been responding to points about arguments from what the Bible says, which is a distinct thing from what (any form of) Christianity says. Christians (both organized groups and, within them, individuals) have a variety of approaches to the role of the Bible and its interpretation. There's no strong, general reason to comment about the doctrine of my religion (personally or organizationally) in a discussion of the content of the Bible. Why are you so eager to jump into a subthread where it is irrelevant and point out that your religion prohibits homosexuality?
- azth 5y ago
  Because homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. We take pride that Islam is the only one with the courage to stick to its roots without appeasing the latest fad of the day. This is a testament that it has not undergone corruption.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Because homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. This is simply false as a generalization of Judaism and Christianity. For that matter, it seems to be untrue as a generalization of Islam, as well, as their are organized Islamic groups that deny that the anti-gay stance is doctrinally valid, juat as there are in the other two groups. In all three there is a historical nominal prohibition of homosexuality, in at least Islam and Christianity that got treated a lot more seriously than it was for moat of history sometime in the last couple centuries, and in all three there are modern movements, and both organized groups with distinct clergy that reject the traditional prohibition and movements within organized groups that still uphold the prohibition which nevertheless reject it. None can claim to be the only one to stick universally to the prohibition without playing No True Scotsman (which, to be fair, religious groups historically do a lot of.)

Why are you afraid to admit that your religion prohibits homosexuality? I'm Muslim, and we're not scared to say it.

by azth 5y ago

Why are you afraid to admit that your religion prohibits homosexuality? I'm Muslim, and we're not scared to say it.

Two reasons: first, we know some religions do that, and we also know it can be got rid of and nothing bad happens. Second: because if your religion requires one to be a criminal, a civilized society will make sure it’s either fixed, or disappears.

azth 5y ago
Religion can be gotten rid off and nothing bad happens? I take it you haven't seen what the likes of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler did. No, we're here today because of religion. You owe many of the luxuries of modern life because of the Golden Age of Islam. Your definition of "criminal" just happens to follow the latest fad of the day. Read https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin for a very brief overview.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I take it you haven't seen what the likes of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler did. Hitler leveraged religion as a tool rather than getting rid of it, and did pretty much the same kind of things as the others (which is individually worse is debatable, though Hitler generally “wins” that competition), so he kind of pretty clearly demonstratee that “getting rid of religion” isn't the source of the problem.
  - azth 5y ago
    Seems you're picking at straws. Hitler hated Judaism and Christianity. Thankfully (and unfortunately), history speaks for itself. The worst and most horrid atrocities and mass murdering were committed under atheistic anti-religion regimes. Clearly, "getting rid of religion" is a straw man that some people like to invoke because they pretend to live in a fairy tale. We're seeing it today in the atheist West. They got rid of religion, only to replace it with tribalism, racism, identity politics, etc. That's human nature, leave them up to their own device and they will use whatever means to gain power and influence. Believing getting rid of religion is somehow going to fix things has been proven wrong time and time again. Not to mention that it is inherent in humans to believe in the One Creator.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Why are you afraid to admit that your religion prohibits homosexuality? Christianity doesn't have a single unitary rule of sexuality and not all forms of Christianity prohibit homosexuality, even in terms of thr general doctrine of organized groups. And even within organized groups whose official doctrine says one thing, there are dissenters on various points, and homosexuality is a common one. Moreover, I’ve been responding to points about arguments from what the Bible says, which is a distinct thing from what (any form of) Christianity says. Christians (both organized groups and, within them, individuals) have a variety of approaches to the role of the Bible and its interpretation. There's no strong, general reason to comment about the doctrine of my religion (personally or organizationally) in a discussion of the content of the Bible. Why are you so eager to jump into a subthread where it is irrelevant and point out that your religion prohibits homosexuality?

azth 5y ago
Because homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. We take pride that Islam is the only one with the courage to stick to its roots without appeasing the latest fad of the day. This is a testament that it has not undergone corruption.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Because homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. This is simply false as a generalization of Judaism and Christianity. For that matter, it seems to be untrue as a generalization of Islam, as well, as their are organized Islamic groups that deny that the anti-gay stance is doctrinally valid, juat as there are in the other two groups. In all three there is a historical nominal prohibition of homosexuality, in at least Islam and Christianity that got treated a lot more seriously than it was for moat of history sometime in the last couple centuries, and in all three there are modern movements, and both organized groups with distinct clergy that reject the traditional prohibition and movements within organized groups that still uphold the prohibition which nevertheless reject it. None can claim to be the only one to stick universally to the prohibition without playing No True Scotsman (which, to be fair, religious groups historically do a lot of.)