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This is attention-grabbing posturing, in the style of most Twitter posts. Amazon is most definitely cruel to its employees, but that cruelty is not applied for

This is attention-grabbing posturing, in the style of most Twitter posts. Amazon is most definitely cruel to its employees, but that cruelty is not applied for the sake of launching Bezos into space. It's applied to make Amazon (and Amazon's investors) money. Going into fits of stylish hysteria because the evil billionaires are launching rockets again misses the more important point: they would be just as evil if they WEREN'T launching rockets. Space exploration isn't the issue. The issue is that workers (and small businesses) are getting ground into a pulp to grease the gears of an increasingly cruel and dysfunctional society. What the ill-gotten gains are spent on is irrelevant. The point is they were ill-gotten in the first place. And this matters, because the vast majority of nasty people running these society-crushing companies AREN'T operating private space programs. Walmart doesn't own any rockets. Nor does McDonalds. But they're still disassembling the foundation of a free, equitable society everyone can participate in, brick by brick, with their perverse economics.

eevilspock 5y ago
You're right, except there is value in calling this out when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped* for these "feats". Even Musk, who has mistreated his employees, uses government subsidies, and did not even invent anything in the first place. He's just another Bezos/Bill Gates type capitalist.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped There is a huge difference between all the wanna-be billionaire astronauts and SpaceX. I can be (and am) impressed by SpaceX without worshipping or even liking Musk. Or considering him mostly responsible for their results. I wouldn't buy a Tesla even if I could afford one, and the number one reason is it's too associated with Musk's personality. But conversely, people who hate Musk and think it's important that other people hate him too, might threaten SpaceX for no good reason (from my point of view). I basically agree that everyone other than SpaceX is into pointless vanity projects. But I can't endorse the hostility of the pundits and commenters because I don't suppose they draw the line at SpaceX. It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. The fact that Amazon exists means that Wal-Mart and Target and Barnes and Noble were displaced to a certain extent. To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt.
  - eevilspock 5y ago
    > It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequity and capitalism is legit? What if any generalized hostility to geek culture is based on the perception that it worships capitalism and is itself generally resistant if not hostile to social justice stands? > To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt. What if some people want none of them to exist?
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      I'm not up for arguing any of that stuff in general. The point is, assuming all of those are reasonable opinions, why Amazon? If the opinions are generic, then why don't they result in a broadly diverse set of observations about many different facets of our entire society? Even if the context is limited to Wal-Mart, I feel (and this could be my particular bubble) like the hate for Wal-Mart has just faded away. I mean, you may affirm that you still think Wal-Mart is terrible, I'm just saying I haven't felt bombarded with that in quite a while. It feels coordinated in waves. Fake. And this is where you say "shut up, whataboutism" as if I were an Amazon spokesperson.
      - eevilspock 5y ago
        you can peruse my comment history. if it isn’t as broad as you suggest, that’s more a function of HN. also, my broader comments invariably get downvoted to hell. not that my other comments don’t. not that i care. (i upvoted all of yours above) there’s a unique reason to bring up Amazon. Nearly everyone shops there, so nearly everyone is complicit. Including liberals. Especially liberals. It’s the complicit that’s my true target. It’s our culture-wide moral failure. Bezos isn’t the real problem. It’s all of us. As Dostoevsky would say, we are all responsible.
        perl4ever 5y ago
        >It’s our culture-wide moral failure If Amazon vanished tomorrow, then there would no longer be a culture-wide moral failure?

eevilspock 5y ago

You're right, except there is value in calling this out when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped* for these "feats". Even Musk, who has mistreated his employees, uses government subsidies, and did not even invent anything in the first place. He's just another Bezos/Bill Gates type capitalist.

perl4ever 5y ago
>when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped There is a huge difference between all the wanna-be billionaire astronauts and SpaceX. I can be (and am) impressed by SpaceX without worshipping or even liking Musk. Or considering him mostly responsible for their results. I wouldn't buy a Tesla even if I could afford one, and the number one reason is it's too associated with Musk's personality. But conversely, people who hate Musk and think it's important that other people hate him too, might threaten SpaceX for no good reason (from my point of view). I basically agree that everyone other than SpaceX is into pointless vanity projects. But I can't endorse the hostility of the pundits and commenters because I don't suppose they draw the line at SpaceX. It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. The fact that Amazon exists means that Wal-Mart and Target and Barnes and Noble were displaced to a certain extent. To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt.
- eevilspock 5y ago
  > It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequity and capitalism is legit? What if any generalized hostility to geek culture is based on the perception that it worships capitalism and is itself generally resistant if not hostile to social justice stands? > To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt. What if some people want none of them to exist?
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    I'm not up for arguing any of that stuff in general. The point is, assuming all of those are reasonable opinions, why Amazon? If the opinions are generic, then why don't they result in a broadly diverse set of observations about many different facets of our entire society? Even if the context is limited to Wal-Mart, I feel (and this could be my particular bubble) like the hate for Wal-Mart has just faded away. I mean, you may affirm that you still think Wal-Mart is terrible, I'm just saying I haven't felt bombarded with that in quite a while. It feels coordinated in waves. Fake. And this is where you say "shut up, whataboutism" as if I were an Amazon spokesperson.
    - eevilspock 5y ago
      you can peruse my comment history. if it isn’t as broad as you suggest, that’s more a function of HN. also, my broader comments invariably get downvoted to hell. not that my other comments don’t. not that i care. (i upvoted all of yours above) there’s a unique reason to bring up Amazon. Nearly everyone shops there, so nearly everyone is complicit. Including liberals. Especially liberals. It’s the complicit that’s my true target. It’s our culture-wide moral failure. Bezos isn’t the real problem. It’s all of us. As Dostoevsky would say, we are all responsible.
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        >It’s our culture-wide moral failure If Amazon vanished tomorrow, then there would no longer be a culture-wide moral failure?