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This looks a lot like a legalized form of bribery. Is there any way to account for this or distinguish it from more transparent bribery? Is there any way to ide

This looks a lot like a legalized form of bribery. Is there any way to account for this or distinguish it from more transparent bribery? Is there any way to identify the effects of this? For example, if we see that Huawei is suddenly acceptable in infrastructure contracts where there would have otherwise been major national security concerns, is there any way to even identify who is responsible for undermining national security from inside?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
the_optimist 5y ago
And if this results in horrific consequences because we've fundamentally undermined security, who's accountable for that? No one (and everyone)?
- grumblenum 5y ago
  >And if this results in horrific consequences because we've fundamentally undermined security, who's accountable for that? No one (and everyone)? It will be quite the moot point then, won't it? May I add for the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology's record that I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.
willcipriano 5y ago
When you break a law, say speeding it is sufficient to prove that you were going above the speed limit. Pretty simple. Bribery laws aren't written like speeding laws, it is insufficient to prove that a official took money or favors and then acted in a manner beneficial to the payer, you must prove that they did so due to the payment specifically. This is virtually impossible so long as they aren't idiots and write the agreement down. One way to enforce this would be to do sting operations from time to time. This was done during the 70's, it was called ABSCAM and they hooked twelve high ranking public officials. Congress got real mad when the FBI did that and it was never attempted again. Must be nice to make the laws.
threatofrain 5y ago
But what is the framework under which Huawei can reliably secure the returns on their bribe? What can a consultant like Tony Podesta do for your company?
- the_optimist 5y ago
  As far as I can tell, it would be impossible to know if one existed. Perhaps plausible deniability is the KPI here?
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  They’re paying Tony Podesta to convince legislators or regulators to act favorably towards Huawei. The framework is uh the US legal system. Securing reliable ROI simply means finding the most effective lobbyist.
  - the_optimist 5y ago
    How exactly does Tony Podesta achieve this end?
    - quickthrowman 5y ago
      By having relationships with legislators that will vote for legislation favorable to Huawei.
ashtonkem 5y ago
It honestly seems like nobody can tell bribery from the normal order of operations anymore
ies7 5y ago
In my head, lobbying in US is already the same with bribing. Unless this lobbying things don't associate with money to certain people or organizations. Sometimes I wonder if we include lobbying in bribing, where would US government rank in most corrupt government in the world.
quickthrowman 5y ago
“Oh, don’t you worry about that,” Yossarian comforted him with a toneless snicker as the engines of the jeeps and ambulance fractured the drowsy silence and the vehicles in the rear began driving away backward. “You make the bribe big enough and they’ll find you. Just make sure you do everything right out in the open. Let everyone know exactly what you want and how much you’re willing to pay for it. The first time you act guilty or ashamed, you might get into trouble.” -Captain Yossarian, Catch-22

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

the_optimist 5y ago

And if this results in horrific consequences because we've fundamentally undermined security, who's accountable for that? No one (and everyone)?

grumblenum 5y ago
>And if this results in horrific consequences because we've fundamentally undermined security, who's accountable for that? No one (and everyone)? It will be quite the moot point then, won't it? May I add for the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology's record that I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

willcipriano 5y ago

When you break a law, say speeding it is sufficient to prove that you were going above the speed limit. Pretty simple. Bribery laws aren't written like speeding laws, it is insufficient to prove that a official took money or favors and then acted in a manner beneficial to the payer, you must prove that they did so due to the payment specifically. This is virtually impossible so long as they aren't idiots and write the agreement down. One way to enforce this would be to do sting operations from time to time. This was done during the 70's, it was called ABSCAM and they hooked twelve high ranking public officials. Congress got real mad when the FBI did that and it was never attempted again. Must be nice to make the laws.

threatofrain 5y ago

But what is the framework under which Huawei can reliably secure the returns on their bribe? What can a consultant like Tony Podesta do for your company?

the_optimist 5y ago
As far as I can tell, it would be impossible to know if one existed. Perhaps plausible deniability is the KPI here?
quickthrowman 5y ago
They’re paying Tony Podesta to convince legislators or regulators to act favorably towards Huawei. The framework is uh the US legal system. Securing reliable ROI simply means finding the most effective lobbyist.
- the_optimist 5y ago
  How exactly does Tony Podesta achieve this end?
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    By having relationships with legislators that will vote for legislation favorable to Huawei.

ashtonkem 5y ago

It honestly seems like nobody can tell bribery from the normal order of operations anymore

ies7 5y ago

In my head, lobbying in US is already the same with bribing. Unless this lobbying things don't associate with money to certain people or organizations. Sometimes I wonder if we include lobbying in bribing, where would US government rank in most corrupt government in the world.

quickthrowman 5y ago

“Oh, don’t you worry about that,” Yossarian comforted him with a toneless snicker as the engines of the jeeps and ambulance fractured the drowsy silence and the vehicles in the rear began driving away backward. “You make the bribe big enough and they’ll find you. Just make sure you do everything right out in the open. Let everyone know exactly what you want and how much you’re willing to pay for it. The first time you act guilty or ashamed, you might get into trouble.” -Captain Yossarian, Catch-22