4 ms·

What? It's not like if a gay person is threatened with jail they're going to start suddenly having heterosexual sex and having babies.

gmadsen 5y ago
historically, this is absolutely what happened.
- cj 5y ago
  source/citation?
  - gmadsen 5y ago
    for the downvoting and I want to make clear that I am not in any way agreeing, im just stating a pretty clear observation. social pressure has a strong effect. As an example, quite a number of lawmakers have been caught with homosexual prostitutes, yet they have families. This is because their is a high social cost to not having a wife and children, even if they preferred not to. Now apply this society wide 200 years ago.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
peoplefromibiza 5y ago
I know it's a stupid example, but even in the movie "The Brokeback Mountain" the two gay men had families and kids, not only because being gay was ostracized, to put it mildly, but also because having kids was considered a duty, social pressure forced many homosexuals to live a "normal life" to avoid discrimination or worse. Being gay was dangerous, it could ruin an entire family forever. There are many ways to push people to do something they are not keen to, draconian laws is one of them.
- jolux 5y ago
  It’s not even like being gay completely prevents people from having kids! There is surrogacy, and artificial insemination, and always an awful lot of kids without parents. As well as plenty of heterosexual couples with fertility problems that society aids instead of criminalizing. It’s pure bigotry to criminalize being gay, there are plenty of ways to encourage people to have families without doing so.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    Of course! There's nothing wrong in being gay, I was simply discussing why some countries outlaw it. We are talking about Ghana where all the options you mention are not available to the majority of the population and even if they were, they wouldn't have the money. Imagine a gay person being responsible for a significant portion of the income of their family, would they risk jail to express themselves or would they not risk to go to jail to not put their family in troubles? It's, ça va sans dire, unacceptable for our standards.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > We are talking about Ghana where all the options you mention are not available to the majority of the population Fertility isn't presently a problem in Ghana [1]. If it were, neonatal care is the low-hanging fruit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ghana#Fertility_and_births_based_on_Demographics_Health_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ghana#Fertilit...
      - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
        Yes, but it's Ghana, not California. "Greater Than Expected Fertility Decline in Ghana" https://dhsprogram.com/publications/publication-fa32-further-analysis.cfm https://dhsprogram.com/publications/publication-fa32-further... I fell I have have to explain that I'm totally against it, but politically - that's the reason why this law it's being enforced - it will probably play a role in the political propaganda.

gmadsen 5y ago

historically, this is absolutely what happened.

cj 5y ago
source/citation?
- gmadsen 5y ago
  for the downvoting and I want to make clear that I am not in any way agreeing, im just stating a pretty clear observation. social pressure has a strong effect. As an example, quite a number of lawmakers have been caught with homosexual prostitutes, yet they have families. This is because their is a high social cost to not having a wife and children, even if they preferred not to. Now apply this society wide 200 years ago.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

I know it's a stupid example, but even in the movie "The Brokeback Mountain" the two gay men had families and kids, not only because being gay was ostracized, to put it mildly, but also because having kids was considered a duty, social pressure forced many homosexuals to live a "normal life" to avoid discrimination or worse. Being gay was dangerous, it could ruin an entire family forever. There are many ways to push people to do something they are not keen to, draconian laws is one of them.

jolux 5y ago
It’s not even like being gay completely prevents people from having kids! There is surrogacy, and artificial insemination, and always an awful lot of kids without parents. As well as plenty of heterosexual couples with fertility problems that society aids instead of criminalizing. It’s pure bigotry to criminalize being gay, there are plenty of ways to encourage people to have families without doing so.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  Of course! There's nothing wrong in being gay, I was simply discussing why some countries outlaw it. We are talking about Ghana where all the options you mention are not available to the majority of the population and even if they were, they wouldn't have the money. Imagine a gay person being responsible for a significant portion of the income of their family, would they risk jail to express themselves or would they not risk to go to jail to not put their family in troubles? It's, ça va sans dire, unacceptable for our standards.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > We are talking about Ghana where all the options you mention are not available to the majority of the population Fertility isn't presently a problem in Ghana [1]. If it were, neonatal care is the low-hanging fruit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ghana#Fertility_and_births_based_on_Demographics_Health_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ghana#Fertilit...
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      Yes, but it's Ghana, not California. "Greater Than Expected Fertility Decline in Ghana" https://dhsprogram.com/publications/publication-fa32-further-analysis.cfm https://dhsprogram.com/publications/publication-fa32-further... I fell I have have to explain that I'm totally against it, but politically - that's the reason why this law it's being enforced - it will probably play a role in the political propaganda.