3 ms·

All this abuse and exploitation for a 11 minute amusement park ride into space

25 points by eevilspock 5y ago

themodelplumber 5y ago
Mr. Bezos has declared ad hominem attacks the enemy[1]. Are his employees suffering because he decided that their complaints were ad hominem attacks as well? 1. https://news.yahoo.com/jeff-bezos-donated-100-million-154000074.html https://news.yahoo.com/jeff-bezos-donated-100-million-154000...
- courtf 5y ago
  Saying things that might damage the (apparently quite fragile) self-image of the wealthy and powerful is the real outrage, not workers attempting suicide on shift, pissing in bottles or being forced to take welfare and 2nd jobs while already working full-time. Questioning gross inequalities and imbalances of power is seen as a personal attack for the Bezos of the world. I'm curious: does being showered with more wealth and power than humans have ever known automatically make you a narcissist, or is it more of a prerequisite to obtaining all that stuff?
ergot_vacation 5y ago
This is attention-grabbing posturing, in the style of most Twitter posts. Amazon is most definitely cruel to its employees, but that cruelty is not applied for the sake of launching Bezos into space. It's applied to make Amazon (and Amazon's investors) money. Going into fits of stylish hysteria because the evil billionaires are launching rockets again misses the more important point: they would be just as evil if they WEREN'T launching rockets. Space exploration isn't the issue. The issue is that workers (and small businesses) are getting ground into a pulp to grease the gears of an increasingly cruel and dysfunctional society. What the ill-gotten gains are spent on is irrelevant. The point is they were ill-gotten in the first place. And this matters, because the vast majority of nasty people running these society-crushing companies AREN'T operating private space programs. Walmart doesn't own any rockets. Nor does McDonalds. But they're still disassembling the foundation of a free, equitable society everyone can participate in, brick by brick, with their perverse economics.
- eevilspock 5y ago
  You're right, except there is value in calling this out when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped* for these "feats". Even Musk, who has mistreated his employees, uses government subsidies, and did not even invent anything in the first place. He's just another Bezos/Bill Gates type capitalist.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    >when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped There is a huge difference between all the wanna-be billionaire astronauts and SpaceX. I can be (and am) impressed by SpaceX without worshipping or even liking Musk. Or considering him mostly responsible for their results. I wouldn't buy a Tesla even if I could afford one, and the number one reason is it's too associated with Musk's personality. But conversely, people who hate Musk and think it's important that other people hate him too, might threaten SpaceX for no good reason (from my point of view). I basically agree that everyone other than SpaceX is into pointless vanity projects. But I can't endorse the hostility of the pundits and commenters because I don't suppose they draw the line at SpaceX. It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. The fact that Amazon exists means that Wal-Mart and Target and Barnes and Noble were displaced to a certain extent. To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt.
    - eevilspock 5y ago
      > It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequity and capitalism is legit? What if any generalized hostility to geek culture is based on the perception that it worships capitalism and is itself generally resistant if not hostile to social justice stands? > To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt. What if some people want none of them to exist?
      - 5y ago
gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
I’m no fan of Bezos, but that “amusement park ride” is actually what some of us would call a “prototype”.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Wouldn't it be more accurate to call Project Mercury[1] the prototype? We sent a man on the exact same flight, except a little bit longer, in 1961[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-Redstone_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-Redstone_3
Barrin92 5y ago
All this abuse and exploitation because people want to just buy, buy, buy 24/7, as cheap as possible and as fast as possible and because the religion of our time is ordering crap nobody needs. Bezos riding a rocket to space is just unequal distribution of the spoils, not the reason for the existence of Amazon.
- eevilspock 5y ago
  Agreed. But the post is not meant to be taken literally... It's rhetorical and makes a point.

25 points by eevilspock 5y ago

Mr. Bezos has declared ad hominem attacks the enemy[1]. Are his employees suffering because he decided that their complaints were ad hominem attacks as well? 1. https://news.yahoo.com/jeff-bezos-donated-100-million-154000074.html https://news.yahoo.com/jeff-bezos-donated-100-million-154000...

courtf 5y ago
Saying things that might damage the (apparently quite fragile) self-image of the wealthy and powerful is the real outrage, not workers attempting suicide on shift, pissing in bottles or being forced to take welfare and 2nd jobs while already working full-time. Questioning gross inequalities and imbalances of power is seen as a personal attack for the Bezos of the world. I'm curious: does being showered with more wealth and power than humans have ever known automatically make you a narcissist, or is it more of a prerequisite to obtaining all that stuff?

ergot_vacation 5y ago

This is attention-grabbing posturing, in the style of most Twitter posts. Amazon is most definitely cruel to its employees, but that cruelty is not applied for the sake of launching Bezos into space. It's applied to make Amazon (and Amazon's investors) money. Going into fits of stylish hysteria because the evil billionaires are launching rockets again misses the more important point: they would be just as evil if they WEREN'T launching rockets. Space exploration isn't the issue. The issue is that workers (and small businesses) are getting ground into a pulp to grease the gears of an increasingly cruel and dysfunctional society. What the ill-gotten gains are spent on is irrelevant. The point is they were ill-gotten in the first place. And this matters, because the vast majority of nasty people running these society-crushing companies AREN'T operating private space programs. Walmart doesn't own any rockets. Nor does McDonalds. But they're still disassembling the foundation of a free, equitable society everyone can participate in, brick by brick, with their perverse economics.

eevilspock 5y ago
You're right, except there is value in calling this out when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped* for these "feats". Even Musk, who has mistreated his employees, uses government subsidies, and did not even invent anything in the first place. He's just another Bezos/Bill Gates type capitalist.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >when billionaires are being held up as heroes if not worshipped There is a huge difference between all the wanna-be billionaire astronauts and SpaceX. I can be (and am) impressed by SpaceX without worshipping or even liking Musk. Or considering him mostly responsible for their results. I wouldn't buy a Tesla even if I could afford one, and the number one reason is it's too associated with Musk's personality. But conversely, people who hate Musk and think it's important that other people hate him too, might threaten SpaceX for no good reason (from my point of view). I basically agree that everyone other than SpaceX is into pointless vanity projects. But I can't endorse the hostility of the pundits and commenters because I don't suppose they draw the line at SpaceX. It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. The fact that Amazon exists means that Wal-Mart and Target and Barnes and Noble were displaced to a certain extent. To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt.
  - eevilspock 5y ago
    > It seems like genericized hostility to the wealthy, space travel, geek culture, American capitalism, etc. What if the generalized hostility to wealth inequity and capitalism is legit? What if any generalized hostility to geek culture is based on the perception that it worships capitalism and is itself generally resistant if not hostile to social justice stands? > To hate Amazon, I'd want to understand why the counterfactual where they didn't do that would be better beyond a reasonable doubt. What if some people want none of them to exist?
    - 5y ago

gunfighthacksaw 5y ago

I’m no fan of Bezos, but that “amusement park ride” is actually what some of us would call a “prototype”.

woodruffw 5y ago
Wouldn't it be more accurate to call Project Mercury[1] the prototype? We sent a man on the exact same flight, except a little bit longer, in 1961[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-Redstone_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-Redstone_3

Barrin92 5y ago

All this abuse and exploitation because people want to just buy, buy, buy 24/7, as cheap as possible and as fast as possible and because the religion of our time is ordering crap nobody needs. Bezos riding a rocket to space is just unequal distribution of the spoils, not the reason for the existence of Amazon.

eevilspock 5y ago
Agreed. But the post is not meant to be taken literally... It's rhetorical and makes a point.