5 ms·

Those wind turbines are upwards of 10 MW each. That is massive. People dont get the scale of it. If the dynamics, control amd reliability are proven, then the

Those wind turbines are upwards of 10 MW each. That is massive. People dont get the scale of it. If the dynamics, control amd reliability are proven, then the only hurdle would be drawing high power carrying cables through corrosive sea waters. And, build cables that withstand constant movement and bending. Edit - Wind turbine capacity.

gameswithgo 5y ago
I believe most of the huge ones you see on the interstate are ~2MW, so imagine ~5x the scale woooo
- jhayward 5y ago
  > imagine ~5x the scale For wind turbines power is proportional to the swept area, and to the square of the diameter. Doubling the diameter quadruples the available power. So for the same wind speed the difference between a 3MW (commonly installed today) land-based turbine and a 15MW turbine (largest offshore class today) would be a little over twice the diameter. Of course, the offshore monsters are also taller to allow greater swept area, and to take advantage of better resource at height.
danans 5y ago
> Those wind turbines are upwards of 10 MW each Assuming a 35% capacity factor (taken from land-based wind turbines, offshore should be higher), that's 84MWh/day. The average California single family home uses 20 kWh per day, which means that that capacity factor this turbine could power about 4200 homes per day. For comparison, a 10 megawatt solar project, assuming a standard 20% solar panel efficiency and one kilowatt per square meter insolation, would require a five square kilometer solar array. The capacity factor of PV solar is inherently limited by sunlight hours, but it is around 28% in California. If offshore wind is available 24 hours at such a huge scale, it could change the renewable energy mix considerably. In that world the biggest advantage of solar would be lower maintenance costs and greater visibility at smaller scale (for example, coupled with batteries to form micro grids).
- philipkglass 5y ago
  I think that you made a mistake with the solar farm area comparison. 10 megawatts per square kilometer (annualized, already accounts for night time and clouds) is a decent rule of thumb for solar farms. So 84 MWh/day (3.5 MW) would take 0.35 km^2 of solar farm. If solar farms were completely tiled over with 20% efficient panels achieving 28% capacity factor, 3.5 MW would occupy only 0.0625 km^2. But offshore wind still has advantages in that it doesn't occupy on-shore real estate and can supply power at night without batteries.
  - danans 5y ago
    > 10 megawatts per square kilometer (annualized, already accounts for night time and clouds) is a decent rule of thumb for solar farms. Oops, you're absolutely right, I didn't square the power, and it messed up the answer by a factor of 1000!
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  In India, a 10 MW installed capacity solar plant occupies 52 acres, about .25 sq.km You 5 sq.km figure, even for Cali is suspiciously high. Maybe you missed a decimal? Edit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz_Solar_Farm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz_Solar_Farm Topaz farm is 550 MW on 19 square Km.
- dtgriscom 5y ago
  Unit problem: such a turbine could power about 4200 homes; no "per day" involved.
  - danans 5y ago
    I should have clarified: the energy produced by one such turbine in a day could provide for the 1 day electrical energy needs of 4200 CA homes.
    - oefnak 5y ago
      Yes, but if there's a unit in both sides of the division, you can remove it.
subpixel 5y ago
> then the only hurdle would be (In New England) the lobsterman, the fishermen, and their political allies, who see offshore wind as a threat and an opportunity, respectively.
- eloff 5y ago
  I wonder if they're wrong to see it that way. Given these would "defend the area" from birds, that might actually increase fish stocks without really getting in the way of fishing in nearby waters. Also just marking some areas as off limits to fishing tends to improve fish stocks over time and benefit everyone. I'd be very curious to see if fish are capable of learning that they can use the turbines to shelter from both humans and birds. They're not that smart, but life tends to find a way.
  - krisoft 5y ago
    Fish are already being attracted to floating stuff, so who knows? Maybe these will also attract them. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_aggregating_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_aggregating_device
- mrguyorama 5y ago
  Maine recently passed a law preventing offshore wind in our state waters :( . Our lobstering industry is very politically strong because they are very well united and put other political issues aside to improve the lobster industry. However, state waters only legally go out a few miles, and our (democratic) governor, while signing the law, specifically called out wanting offshore wind power in the federal waters off the coast, but we also have a shitload of mountaintops that could have wind power, and a few installations already, as well as our biggest state university having a hugely and important wind energy lab and facility
- baud147258 5y ago
  my brother is working on an off shore wind farm, of the cost of Normandy (should 10 km from the shore, near Courseulles, I think) and currently the biggest opposition is the local fishermen too
TheRealPomax 5y ago
That, and actual proper ocean storms.

gameswithgo 5y ago

I believe most of the huge ones you see on the interstate are ~2MW, so imagine ~5x the scale woooo

jhayward 5y ago
> imagine ~5x the scale For wind turbines power is proportional to the swept area, and to the square of the diameter. Doubling the diameter quadruples the available power. So for the same wind speed the difference between a 3MW (commonly installed today) land-based turbine and a 15MW turbine (largest offshore class today) would be a little over twice the diameter. Of course, the offshore monsters are also taller to allow greater swept area, and to take advantage of better resource at height.

danans 5y ago

> Those wind turbines are upwards of 10 MW each Assuming a 35% capacity factor (taken from land-based wind turbines, offshore should be higher), that's 84MWh/day. The average California single family home uses 20 kWh per day, which means that that capacity factor this turbine could power about 4200 homes per day. For comparison, a 10 megawatt solar project, assuming a standard 20% solar panel efficiency and one kilowatt per square meter insolation, would require a five square kilometer solar array. The capacity factor of PV solar is inherently limited by sunlight hours, but it is around 28% in California. If offshore wind is available 24 hours at such a huge scale, it could change the renewable energy mix considerably. In that world the biggest advantage of solar would be lower maintenance costs and greater visibility at smaller scale (for example, coupled with batteries to form micro grids).

philipkglass 5y ago
I think that you made a mistake with the solar farm area comparison. 10 megawatts per square kilometer (annualized, already accounts for night time and clouds) is a decent rule of thumb for solar farms. So 84 MWh/day (3.5 MW) would take 0.35 km^2 of solar farm. If solar farms were completely tiled over with 20% efficient panels achieving 28% capacity factor, 3.5 MW would occupy only 0.0625 km^2. But offshore wind still has advantages in that it doesn't occupy on-shore real estate and can supply power at night without batteries.
- danans 5y ago
  > 10 megawatts per square kilometer (annualized, already accounts for night time and clouds) is a decent rule of thumb for solar farms. Oops, you're absolutely right, I didn't square the power, and it messed up the answer by a factor of 1000!
kumarvvr 5y ago
In India, a 10 MW installed capacity solar plant occupies 52 acres, about .25 sq.km You 5 sq.km figure, even for Cali is suspiciously high. Maybe you missed a decimal? Edit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz_Solar_Farm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz_Solar_Farm Topaz farm is 550 MW on 19 square Km.
dtgriscom 5y ago
Unit problem: such a turbine could power about 4200 homes; no "per day" involved.
- danans 5y ago
  I should have clarified: the energy produced by one such turbine in a day could provide for the 1 day electrical energy needs of 4200 CA homes.
  - oefnak 5y ago
    Yes, but if there's a unit in both sides of the division, you can remove it.

subpixel 5y ago

> then the only hurdle would be (In New England) the lobsterman, the fishermen, and their political allies, who see offshore wind as a threat and an opportunity, respectively.

eloff 5y ago
I wonder if they're wrong to see it that way. Given these would "defend the area" from birds, that might actually increase fish stocks without really getting in the way of fishing in nearby waters. Also just marking some areas as off limits to fishing tends to improve fish stocks over time and benefit everyone. I'd be very curious to see if fish are capable of learning that they can use the turbines to shelter from both humans and birds. They're not that smart, but life tends to find a way.
- krisoft 5y ago
  Fish are already being attracted to floating stuff, so who knows? Maybe these will also attract them. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_aggregating_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_aggregating_device
mrguyorama 5y ago
Maine recently passed a law preventing offshore wind in our state waters :( . Our lobstering industry is very politically strong because they are very well united and put other political issues aside to improve the lobster industry. However, state waters only legally go out a few miles, and our (democratic) governor, while signing the law, specifically called out wanting offshore wind power in the federal waters off the coast, but we also have a shitload of mountaintops that could have wind power, and a few installations already, as well as our biggest state university having a hugely and important wind energy lab and facility
baud147258 5y ago
my brother is working on an off shore wind farm, of the cost of Normandy (should 10 km from the shore, near Courseulles, I think) and currently the biggest opposition is the local fishermen too

TheRealPomax 5y ago

That, and actual proper ocean storms.