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The Verge podcast[0] where Zuck made this comment was quite revealing. Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to communicate an intense fear that Face

The Verge podcast[0] where Zuck made this comment was quite revealing. Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to communicate an intense fear that Facebook would be locked out of Apple's upcoming AR platform. Is the 'metaverse' inevitable? Or is it merely sci-fi wishful thinking? If 'interoperability' and 'decentralization' means that you can't avoid targeted advertising, I'll pass. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-ceo-metaverse-interview https://www.theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-c...

at_a_remove 5y ago
I hate to be the one to bang on about standards, but the cyberpunk vision of the Metaverse -- and I am aiming at kind of a bog-standard middle ground of it -- will depend on some very open standards that are decentralized at the core, starting at Snow Crash and ending in the John C. Wright "The Golden Oecumene" sense of things. Anything but an open and radically-decentralized interoperable set of standards and you're Running On Someone's Specific Hardware. That means that they and the country (or other municipal structures) might have opinions on what you can run on their hardware, and thus the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse will be invoked at the start. As you slide toward less interoperability and more corporate/government control, you're going toward the Johnny Mnemonic territory (maybe without the cyberdolphin). You'll have to hack your way around the place, and that means that the ordinary folks are left out. They might not have the smarts, the hardware, the wetware, and so on. Further levels of control and you're into Second Life -- one platform, one company, but perhaps some local rules/anarchy. And if you're still thinking of the children, the Metaverse eventually looks like Club Penguin. You can finally rest assured that the concept is functionally dead when we are all sending each other only various emojis of unrealistic skin tones. So, the question then becomes, does anything in the Facebook/Zuckerberg history suggest where on that spectrum we will land? As a side note, I believe that pretty much any version of this Metaverse means targeted ads. On the controlled side, the people running the hardware will want money, and that means ads. On the uncontrolled ads, randos will want money, and that means that they'll do whatever they can to sniff your activity and monitor you, and then send you ads.
- akeck 5y ago
  Could I trouble you (or anyone) for a "metaverse"-related fiction reading list? It's been awhile since I dug into some classic cyberpunk.
  - pbadg3r 5y ago
    You may enjoy http://www.technovelgy.com/ http://www.technovelgy.com/
  - at_a_remove 5y ago
    Aside from what I mentioned, you're looking at Bruce Sterling, maybe a little Stross. I hesitate to recommend Doctorow -- he is faddishly distracted and senselessly optimistic. Vinge's "True Names" stands out. Maybe When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One for the AI side of things. The amusing Headcrash, writings by Pat Cadigan, Jeter's deliciously dystopian Noir is a favorite if you want to see how bad it might get. Hardwired, by Walter Jon Williams, but that one has been a while.
    - TRcontrarian 5y ago
      Vernor Vinge is usually fantastic.
  - TRcontrarian 5y ago
    The founding text is Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (1992). It's short, funny, entertaining, and full of new ideas in a freewheeling early 90's spirit. The list in the comment you are replying to is not bad, since most interactions you will ever have with someone about a metaverse will hinge on shared descriptions you have with them of a metaverse, so whichever books you hear about the most are by definition the most useful ones to read. Almost everyone has read or heard of Ready Player One (2011), which contains extensive descriptions of its own corporate dystopic metaverse, albeit one that I find insufferably cliche and unoriginal. Metaverse descriptions are descended from the first cyberspace descriptions in Neuromancer (1984) which is a beautiful book worth a read.
    - 5y ago
SrslyJosh 5y ago
> Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to communicate an intense fear that Facebook would be locked out of Apple's upcoming AR platform. We can sure hope.
stingraycharles 5y ago
This makes a lot of sense. And given the Oculus, they already have a pretty decent foothold in the AR/VR world. So as a reaction for Apple becoming “the” gatekeeper for a metaverse platform, Facebook is now doubling down on becoming “the” metaverse platform. Whatever that means. I wonder whether Facebook is going to try to accomplish this using their existing social networks, or do some acquisitions in the space.
fossuser 5y ago
AR is the obvious next platform and UX leap if the hardware is workable. Zuck and Apple both recognize this and are both working on it. The winner will be similar to an iPhone level win in terms of shift, it’s hard to know how close viable hardware is though.
smoldesu 5y ago
I doubt Facebook really needs to worry about Apple's upcoming AR/VR push. They're the people who sell $300 VR headsets, if anything they should be encouraging Apple to drive the price of their headset up.
Niglodonicus 5y ago
I seriously hope enough people are still grounded enough in this reality to reject AR/VR bullshit besides as a fun playground like VRchat or what have you. Integrating either or both into daily life would be fucking godawful.
- recursive 5y ago
  To me, VR is really cool. I wouldn't want to give it up. It functions as a game console with a different input/display device. I'm not too keen on the metaverse concept, and I don't use it for social stuff.
  - goatlover 5y ago
    Agreed on that, but I don't want it to become like a smartphone where it almost becomes a necessary component of a majority of your waking life. I already take in enough digital content and am tracked by enough things as it is.
- baby 5y ago
  VR is awesome.
chaostheory 5y ago
It’s already here. All you need to see it is either Steam VR or Oculus. Then try Virtual Chat, Alt space, Rec Room, or Facebook’s Horizon. Even Roblox and Minecraft support VR now

at_a_remove 5y ago

I hate to be the one to bang on about standards, but the cyberpunk vision of the Metaverse -- and I am aiming at kind of a bog-standard middle ground of it -- will depend on some very open standards that are decentralized at the core, starting at Snow Crash and ending in the John C. Wright "The Golden Oecumene" sense of things. Anything but an open and radically-decentralized interoperable set of standards and you're Running On Someone's Specific Hardware. That means that they and the country (or other municipal structures) might have opinions on what you can run on their hardware, and thus the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse will be invoked at the start. As you slide toward less interoperability and more corporate/government control, you're going toward the Johnny Mnemonic territory (maybe without the cyberdolphin). You'll have to hack your way around the place, and that means that the ordinary folks are left out. They might not have the smarts, the hardware, the wetware, and so on. Further levels of control and you're into Second Life -- one platform, one company, but perhaps some local rules/anarchy. And if you're still thinking of the children, the Metaverse eventually looks like Club Penguin. You can finally rest assured that the concept is functionally dead when we are all sending each other only various emojis of unrealistic skin tones. So, the question then becomes, does anything in the Facebook/Zuckerberg history suggest where on that spectrum we will land? As a side note, I believe that pretty much any version of this Metaverse means targeted ads. On the controlled side, the people running the hardware will want money, and that means ads. On the uncontrolled ads, randos will want money, and that means that they'll do whatever they can to sniff your activity and monitor you, and then send you ads.

akeck 5y ago
Could I trouble you (or anyone) for a "metaverse"-related fiction reading list? It's been awhile since I dug into some classic cyberpunk.
- pbadg3r 5y ago
  You may enjoy http://www.technovelgy.com/ http://www.technovelgy.com/
- at_a_remove 5y ago
  Aside from what I mentioned, you're looking at Bruce Sterling, maybe a little Stross. I hesitate to recommend Doctorow -- he is faddishly distracted and senselessly optimistic. Vinge's "True Names" stands out. Maybe When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One for the AI side of things. The amusing Headcrash, writings by Pat Cadigan, Jeter's deliciously dystopian Noir is a favorite if you want to see how bad it might get. Hardwired, by Walter Jon Williams, but that one has been a while.
  - TRcontrarian 5y ago
    Vernor Vinge is usually fantastic.
- TRcontrarian 5y ago
  The founding text is Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (1992). It's short, funny, entertaining, and full of new ideas in a freewheeling early 90's spirit. The list in the comment you are replying to is not bad, since most interactions you will ever have with someone about a metaverse will hinge on shared descriptions you have with them of a metaverse, so whichever books you hear about the most are by definition the most useful ones to read. Almost everyone has read or heard of Ready Player One (2011), which contains extensive descriptions of its own corporate dystopic metaverse, albeit one that I find insufferably cliche and unoriginal. Metaverse descriptions are descended from the first cyberspace descriptions in Neuromancer (1984) which is a beautiful book worth a read.
  - 5y ago

SrslyJosh 5y ago

> Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to communicate an intense fear that Facebook would be locked out of Apple's upcoming AR platform. We can sure hope.

stingraycharles 5y ago

This makes a lot of sense. And given the Oculus, they already have a pretty decent foothold in the AR/VR world. So as a reaction for Apple becoming “the” gatekeeper for a metaverse platform, Facebook is now doubling down on becoming “the” metaverse platform. Whatever that means. I wonder whether Facebook is going to try to accomplish this using their existing social networks, or do some acquisitions in the space.

fossuser 5y ago

AR is the obvious next platform and UX leap if the hardware is workable. Zuck and Apple both recognize this and are both working on it. The winner will be similar to an iPhone level win in terms of shift, it’s hard to know how close viable hardware is though.

smoldesu 5y ago

I doubt Facebook really needs to worry about Apple's upcoming AR/VR push. They're the people who sell $300 VR headsets, if anything they should be encouraging Apple to drive the price of their headset up.

Niglodonicus 5y ago

I seriously hope enough people are still grounded enough in this reality to reject AR/VR bullshit besides as a fun playground like VRchat or what have you. Integrating either or both into daily life would be fucking godawful.

recursive 5y ago
To me, VR is really cool. I wouldn't want to give it up. It functions as a game console with a different input/display device. I'm not too keen on the metaverse concept, and I don't use it for social stuff.
- goatlover 5y ago
  Agreed on that, but I don't want it to become like a smartphone where it almost becomes a necessary component of a majority of your waking life. I already take in enough digital content and am tracked by enough things as it is.
baby 5y ago
VR is awesome.

chaostheory 5y ago

It’s already here. All you need to see it is either Steam VR or Oculus. Then try Virtual Chat, Alt space, Rec Room, or Facebook’s Horizon. Even Roblox and Minecraft support VR now