5 ms·

No. Just no... We need another PC revolution for phones. Not every problem has to be solved by force or coercion.

idle_zealot 5y ago
Not every problem, no. But I don’t see the invisible hand of the market fixing this one. I don’t think most users care about how open their technology is; the downsides are too nebulous and distant to drive consumer spending away from walled gardens.
- judge2020 5y ago
  If most users don't care about how open their technology is, why would such a change benefit them/why would they agree to it? Surely they would choose a more open system if they really wanted one (especially since Android phones that can sideload apps from the internet are going to be cheaper than iPhone anyways).
sudosysgen 5y ago
The problem with the iPhone is a problem of coercion. Apple is exerting legal power and the threat of force to prevent you from doing what you want with your phone pursuant to the DMCA. If there were no legal restrictions with what you're doing with you're phone, Apple would have a very hard time preventing you from doing what you want. Anyone could buy an exploit for iOS for a million and sell unlocks for 50$. There is force and coercion involved, so a governmental intervention is much more necessary. It would also make it way easier to transfer your apps from platform to platform and to switch OSes.
- judge2020 5y ago
  > Apple is exerting legal power and the threat of force to prevent you from doing what you want with your phone pursuant to the DMCA. No. https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ They simply make it technically infeasible to jailbreak since jailbreaks run untrusted code that bypasses security restrictions (eg. adware that survives resets).
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Just like for ripping DVDs, yes it is legal to do it personally. That's not what I was talking about, I'm talking about commercial jailbreak operations which are still illegal.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      What makes them illegal? I imagine the only reason nobody does it is because there’s no market - anyone that wants their phone jailbroken probably doesn’t want to pay, or just doesn’t want to be without their phone for a week+. Plus, it’s not like a commercial operation like this is going to start making their own jailbreaks and then hoarding the exploits so that you can’t use your own PC to perform them - the jailbreak community would immediately hate such a company.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        It's illegal because of the DMCA. It's not legal to sell tools that bypass copy protection. You wouldn't need to send your phone or anything, you can do fully remote jailbreak from a web browser with the right exploits. You'd be surprised how popular pay-to-jailbreak shops are/were in places where this isn't enforced. You go there and the guy jailbreak your phone in front of you then hands it back to you. There's absolutely a market

Not every problem, no. But I don’t see the invisible hand of the market fixing this one. I don’t think most users care about how open their technology is; the downsides are too nebulous and distant to drive consumer spending away from walled gardens.

judge2020 5y ago
If most users don't care about how open their technology is, why would such a change benefit them/why would they agree to it? Surely they would choose a more open system if they really wanted one (especially since Android phones that can sideload apps from the internet are going to be cheaper than iPhone anyways).

sudosysgen 5y ago

The problem with the iPhone is a problem of coercion. Apple is exerting legal power and the threat of force to prevent you from doing what you want with your phone pursuant to the DMCA. If there were no legal restrictions with what you're doing with you're phone, Apple would have a very hard time preventing you from doing what you want. Anyone could buy an exploit for iOS for a million and sell unlocks for 50$. There is force and coercion involved, so a governmental intervention is much more necessary. It would also make it way easier to transfer your apps from platform to platform and to switch OSes.

judge2020 5y ago
> Apple is exerting legal power and the threat of force to prevent you from doing what you want with your phone pursuant to the DMCA. No. https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/ They simply make it technically infeasible to jailbreak since jailbreaks run untrusted code that bypasses security restrictions (eg. adware that survives resets).
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Just like for ripping DVDs, yes it is legal to do it personally. That's not what I was talking about, I'm talking about commercial jailbreak operations which are still illegal.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    What makes them illegal? I imagine the only reason nobody does it is because there’s no market - anyone that wants their phone jailbroken probably doesn’t want to pay, or just doesn’t want to be without their phone for a week+. Plus, it’s not like a commercial operation like this is going to start making their own jailbreaks and then hoarding the exploits so that you can’t use your own PC to perform them - the jailbreak community would immediately hate such a company.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      It's illegal because of the DMCA. It's not legal to sell tools that bypass copy protection. You wouldn't need to send your phone or anything, you can do fully remote jailbreak from a web browser with the right exploits. You'd be surprised how popular pay-to-jailbreak shops are/were in places where this isn't enforced. You go there and the guy jailbreak your phone in front of you then hands it back to you. There's absolutely a market