5 ms·

It's also a bit like: 'Man born over a century ago hasn't the same values that we do today. More news at eleven.' Do you really think that Hubble didn't have s

It's also a bit like: 'Man born over a century ago hasn't the same values that we do today. More news at eleven.' Do you really think that Hubble didn't have such views, or any other person you name stuff after?

bostonsre 5y ago
Yea agreed, he held a belief that most people in society held at the time. We probably hold beliefs that will be shameful to those in the future. I constantly look back at my past self and think he was an idiot. People are fallible and make mistakes as well.
sp332 5y ago
Plenty of people have the same values today. here is the 2016/2020 Republican platform [PDF] https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/document... It includes an endorsement to "bar government discrimination against individuals and businesses for acting on the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman". So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore.
- AllegedAlec 5y ago
  > So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore. I never said any of that though.
  - sp332 5y ago
    James Webb has values that people still do today. Your summary of the issue says the opposite.
- JoeyBananas 5y ago
  That really shouldn't be a controversial statement. Having a government that imposes the values of one group on everyone sounds great when you happen to be a part of that group, but what happens when they decide to impose values that you don't agree with?
- bostonsre 5y ago
  I don't agree with their beliefs either but do you really feel comfortable having one side of the political spectrum be the arbiter of what is "right"? We may disagree with them, but we (assuming you are as well) are in america where you are allowed to hold beliefs (as long as exercising those beliefs don't infringe on the rights of others). > So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore. If some people still hold some of those beliefs (again, I am not one of them), doesn't it seem even less good to penalize someone from the distant past for holding that belief?
  - sp332 5y ago
    We can individually decide what is right. We can try to convince each other of our positions too, as individuals. The people who each put their name on the petition are trying to get the people in charge of the project at NASA to change their decision. No need to drag spectrums or politics into it. I know I'm the one who put the Republican document into this conversation but it was just an example of how widespread it is. When it comes to legislation, it makes sense to me to use it for certain large-scale kinds of systematic discrimination. Since the US government passed laws against gay people having certain positions, it's probably good to legislate against discrimination for a while. If it were just a matter of individual people's opinions, it would be less widespread issue.
    - bostonsre 5y ago
      > we can individually decide what is right. You really feel comfortable that you are infallible and that it's within your rights to dictate what is "right" everywhere across society? Shouldn't others get a say in what is right? I'm all for legislation that determines our laws, but I'm a lot less ok with social media mobs exerting pressure to force others to fall in line with their beliefs.
      - sp332 5y ago
        I don't think I'm infallible. I said in the next sentence we can try to change each other's minds. I mentioned an exception, but in most cases I'm much more comfortable with individuals making their own decisions than enforcing a uniform standard of behavior. Online mobs are just people, but legislation has legalized violence available to back it up and that seems much more powerful to me. And if you let others have a say in what's right, how could you take a stand for anything? https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732 https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732

bostonsre 5y ago

Yea agreed, he held a belief that most people in society held at the time. We probably hold beliefs that will be shameful to those in the future. I constantly look back at my past self and think he was an idiot. People are fallible and make mistakes as well.

sp332 5y ago

Plenty of people have the same values today. here is the 2016/2020 Republican platform [PDF] https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/document... It includes an endorsement to "bar government discrimination against individuals and businesses for acting on the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman". So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore.

AllegedAlec 5y ago
> So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore. I never said any of that though.
- sp332 5y ago
  James Webb has values that people still do today. Your summary of the issue says the opposite.
JoeyBananas 5y ago
That really shouldn't be a controversial statement. Having a government that imposes the values of one group on everyone sounds great when you happen to be a part of that group, but what happens when they decide to impose values that you don't agree with?
bostonsre 5y ago
I don't agree with their beliefs either but do you really feel comfortable having one side of the political spectrum be the arbiter of what is "right"? We may disagree with them, but we (assuming you are as well) are in america where you are allowed to hold beliefs (as long as exercising those beliefs don't infringe on the rights of others). > So you can't argue that we should forget his bigotry just because it's old and not relevant anymore. If some people still hold some of those beliefs (again, I am not one of them), doesn't it seem even less good to penalize someone from the distant past for holding that belief?
- sp332 5y ago
  We can individually decide what is right. We can try to convince each other of our positions too, as individuals. The people who each put their name on the petition are trying to get the people in charge of the project at NASA to change their decision. No need to drag spectrums or politics into it. I know I'm the one who put the Republican document into this conversation but it was just an example of how widespread it is. When it comes to legislation, it makes sense to me to use it for certain large-scale kinds of systematic discrimination. Since the US government passed laws against gay people having certain positions, it's probably good to legislate against discrimination for a while. If it were just a matter of individual people's opinions, it would be less widespread issue.
  - bostonsre 5y ago
    > we can individually decide what is right. You really feel comfortable that you are infallible and that it's within your rights to dictate what is "right" everywhere across society? Shouldn't others get a say in what is right? I'm all for legislation that determines our laws, but I'm a lot less ok with social media mobs exerting pressure to force others to fall in line with their beliefs.
    - sp332 5y ago
      I don't think I'm infallible. I said in the next sentence we can try to change each other's minds. I mentioned an exception, but in most cases I'm much more comfortable with individuals making their own decisions than enforcing a uniform standard of behavior. Online mobs are just people, but legislation has legalized violence available to back it up and that seems much more powerful to me. And if you let others have a say in what's right, how could you take a stand for anything? https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732 https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732