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Can we talk about the original tweet some? How DO we let kids be kids in this age where all the other kids wanna do is be on YouTube and TikTok?

OGWhales 5y ago
I don't have kids myself but my I have nieces and nephews. They all play outside and do normal kid stuff. They get a little bit of screen time but their parents limit it. Oldest one is 6 now, so not sure what that will be like going into their teen years. I feel like that's when it will be harder to get them offline but we will see
jugg1es 5y ago
Summer camp has worked really well for us this year. The 6 y/o comes home absolutely filthy with knowledge of ground bees.
jedimastert 5y ago
I have kids of my own, and I think it's absolutely possible to do both. My daughter is 4 now, and loves to splash in mud and do all of that stuff. At the same time, she loves doing puzzles and art, which is still normal kid stuff. I think the problem is that the original tweet seems to think that "coding" is only a vocational skill, and it's definitely not. When you're that age, coding is just another form of expression and exploration. It can make something useful, but it's just puzzles and fingerpaint.
- racl101 5y ago
  That lady probably thinks programmers are the way they're depicted in Dilbert lol. Anyways, I agree. It's another form of expression. Just like Math or Music. But I do also agree, in part with her point, that kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something.
  - jedimastert 5y ago
    > kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something. Yeah that's a really tough line to track. At some point they're going to develop a sense of purpose and I have no idea when or where or what or how I can nurture it. ANXIETY
  - mcmillen 5y ago
    Hi! I'm the author of the Perl paint-splatter paper. "That lady" is Adrienne Porter Felt, who started as an engineer working on Google Chrome security a decade or so ago, and is now a Director of Engineering who manages a sizable chunk of the Chrome team. I never worked with her directly, but she has a reputation as a good manager and I'm pretty sure she knows how programmers work.
toolz 5y ago
Why are TikTok and YouTube excluded from "kids being kids" activities? If that's what all the kids are doing then it seems that's what a kids activity has become. I used to play with neighborhood kids quite a bit when I was younger. Now my nephew plays Fortnite almost every day with 5ish different friends. He gets way more experience socializing than I ever did. Ultimately (I think) kids need to learn to socialize with their peers. That means they need to participate with their peers doing what their peers are doing.
- zests 5y ago
  I am very glad that I did not do all of what my peers were doing.
- joppy 5y ago
  There’s a difference between socialising where you can say something dumb, and your friends will say “that was dumb haha” and everyone will move on with their lives, and socialising where you can say something dumb, someone posts it on social media, and the next day everyone at school is talking about what you did. Ubiquitous socialising can be good but it cuts both ways, especially in an environment where you have no plausible deniability. In my opinion, people should be free to have their own thoughts, potentially get blasted for them, and move on with their lives the next day with minimal consequences. Certainly there should be no consequences coming from people that were not actually there, but just heard about it from some social media platform.
- duxup 5y ago
  I don't know about TikTok well enough but as far as YouTube goes ... the race for eyeballs, views, even money and etc. produces some pretty skewed results / activity and carries a lot of negatives with the drive to just pump out continuous content, produce youtube drama, etc. And now all that content is out there with all the mistakes a kid will make, for the world to see, possibly forever. Granted if a kid were to just upload fun videos... have comments off ... not interact with the community, then maybe they'd be ok? But I think all of that is not super likely as my son's friends want to be youtube stars.
  - 5y ago
jcims 5y ago
My kids were raised out in the woods basically...it's tricky. When they were little they played outside quite a bit, but as they got older they just lost kind of lost interest. I think the loss of the social connection over the outdoors is some of it...they can play out there all they want but if there's nobody else out there to do the same it gets old quick. I saw someone mention summer camp, some kind of structured mechanism to do it would help a lot i think.
kevinmchugh 5y ago
I don't like the idea that programming is a vocational skill. Literacy and numeracy aren't. Arts and crafts skills we understand have other uses. Programming is great for self expression, exploring new ideas, amusing people. These are great goals for kids. If you teach a kid to program, probably they're gonna put it to use in Minecraft or Roblox, not by writing accounting software. That's good! That's no more professional software development than kids building with Legos are doing engineering.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
The same way you raised kids who just wanted to sit in front of a computer all day.
w0m 5y ago
Our approach has been to limit screen time. Definition of 'being kids' is also up to interpretation I think; no judging.
lupire 5y ago
It's just silly fear of change. Why is programming bad but reading books is good? Programming is fun!
hluska 5y ago
I’ve only been a parent for five years so do with this what you will. For us, it started at me - I had to make some big changes. When she was very little, I caught myself pushing her on a swing with my nose in my phone. Once I caught myself doing that, I broke the habit - now when we’re spending quality time together, my phone doesn’t exist. This gives us space to do things outside, go on adventures and use our imaginations. Devices are a huge part of her world so at other times, we either share one device and I let her quarterback or we spend an hour in bed on our own devices. I’m open about what I do on my device and she’s open about what she does on hers. In some cases, this creates an opportunity for me to teach and model. In other cases, it gives her an opportunity to teach me. The last part has been especially important. As my girl has taught me things about her world, I’ve learned that some of my ideas about kids being kids are based on my own prejudice. I’ve caught myself expressing an overly rosy view of ‘when I was a kid’ and have tried to project that world upon her. Thankfully, my kid and I have the kind of relationship where she’s more than comfortable to tell me that I’m wrong.

OGWhales 5y ago

I don't have kids myself but my I have nieces and nephews. They all play outside and do normal kid stuff. They get a little bit of screen time but their parents limit it. Oldest one is 6 now, so not sure what that will be like going into their teen years. I feel like that's when it will be harder to get them offline but we will see

jugg1es 5y ago

Summer camp has worked really well for us this year. The 6 y/o comes home absolutely filthy with knowledge of ground bees.

jedimastert 5y ago

I have kids of my own, and I think it's absolutely possible to do both. My daughter is 4 now, and loves to splash in mud and do all of that stuff. At the same time, she loves doing puzzles and art, which is still normal kid stuff. I think the problem is that the original tweet seems to think that "coding" is only a vocational skill, and it's definitely not. When you're that age, coding is just another form of expression and exploration. It can make something useful, but it's just puzzles and fingerpaint.

racl101 5y ago
That lady probably thinks programmers are the way they're depicted in Dilbert lol. Anyways, I agree. It's another form of expression. Just like Math or Music. But I do also agree, in part with her point, that kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something.
- jedimastert 5y ago
  > kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something. Yeah that's a really tough line to track. At some point they're going to develop a sense of purpose and I have no idea when or where or what or how I can nurture it. ANXIETY
- mcmillen 5y ago
  Hi! I'm the author of the Perl paint-splatter paper. "That lady" is Adrienne Porter Felt, who started as an engineer working on Google Chrome security a decade or so ago, and is now a Director of Engineering who manages a sizable chunk of the Chrome team. I never worked with her directly, but she has a reputation as a good manager and I'm pretty sure she knows how programmers work.

toolz 5y ago

Why are TikTok and YouTube excluded from "kids being kids" activities? If that's what all the kids are doing then it seems that's what a kids activity has become. I used to play with neighborhood kids quite a bit when I was younger. Now my nephew plays Fortnite almost every day with 5ish different friends. He gets way more experience socializing than I ever did. Ultimately (I think) kids need to learn to socialize with their peers. That means they need to participate with their peers doing what their peers are doing.

zests 5y ago
I am very glad that I did not do all of what my peers were doing.
joppy 5y ago
There’s a difference between socialising where you can say something dumb, and your friends will say “that was dumb haha” and everyone will move on with their lives, and socialising where you can say something dumb, someone posts it on social media, and the next day everyone at school is talking about what you did. Ubiquitous socialising can be good but it cuts both ways, especially in an environment where you have no plausible deniability. In my opinion, people should be free to have their own thoughts, potentially get blasted for them, and move on with their lives the next day with minimal consequences. Certainly there should be no consequences coming from people that were not actually there, but just heard about it from some social media platform.
duxup 5y ago
I don't know about TikTok well enough but as far as YouTube goes ... the race for eyeballs, views, even money and etc. produces some pretty skewed results / activity and carries a lot of negatives with the drive to just pump out continuous content, produce youtube drama, etc. And now all that content is out there with all the mistakes a kid will make, for the world to see, possibly forever. Granted if a kid were to just upload fun videos... have comments off ... not interact with the community, then maybe they'd be ok? But I think all of that is not super likely as my son's friends want to be youtube stars.
- 5y ago

jcims 5y ago

My kids were raised out in the woods basically...it's tricky. When they were little they played outside quite a bit, but as they got older they just lost kind of lost interest. I think the loss of the social connection over the outdoors is some of it...they can play out there all they want but if there's nobody else out there to do the same it gets old quick. I saw someone mention summer camp, some kind of structured mechanism to do it would help a lot i think.

kevinmchugh 5y ago

I don't like the idea that programming is a vocational skill. Literacy and numeracy aren't. Arts and crafts skills we understand have other uses. Programming is great for self expression, exploring new ideas, amusing people. These are great goals for kids. If you teach a kid to program, probably they're gonna put it to use in Minecraft or Roblox, not by writing accounting software. That's good! That's no more professional software development than kids building with Legos are doing engineering.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

The same way you raised kids who just wanted to sit in front of a computer all day.

w0m 5y ago

Our approach has been to limit screen time. Definition of 'being kids' is also up to interpretation I think; no judging.

lupire 5y ago

It's just silly fear of change. Why is programming bad but reading books is good? Programming is fun!

hluska 5y ago

I’ve only been a parent for five years so do with this what you will. For us, it started at me - I had to make some big changes. When she was very little, I caught myself pushing her on a swing with my nose in my phone. Once I caught myself doing that, I broke the habit - now when we’re spending quality time together, my phone doesn’t exist. This gives us space to do things outside, go on adventures and use our imaginations. Devices are a huge part of her world so at other times, we either share one device and I let her quarterback or we spend an hour in bed on our own devices. I’m open about what I do on my device and she’s open about what she does on hers. In some cases, this creates an opportunity for me to teach and model. In other cases, it gives her an opportunity to teach me. The last part has been especially important. As my girl has taught me things about her world, I’ve learned that some of my ideas about kids being kids are based on my own prejudice. I’ve caught myself expressing an overly rosy view of ‘when I was a kid’ and have tried to project that world upon her. Thankfully, my kid and I have the kind of relationship where she’s more than comfortable to tell me that I’m wrong.