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Here's my remarks about how the greek political system works: - Greece is a very recently established democracy (1974), before that greece was like a protector

Here's my remarks about how the greek political system works: - Greece is a very recently established democracy (1974), before that greece was like a protectorate, due to a strategic positioning in the edges of the western-eastern block. - As such, previous generations used to see the state as 'the bad guy' whose raison d'etre was to oppress citizens and maintain class inequality. So it's natural to always try to cheat, steal from "the state" and to pass these attitudes to their children - Family ties; people can get elected for having a large extended family , and may even end up in the parliament. Are there many developed countries where father, son and grand-son, or uncle and nephew ALL become PMs in the past 30 years? - It's difficult for new people to enter the political scene, people will not judge you by your CV, but by your ability to trick people to vote for u. - The media is controlled by businessmen who traditionally have stakes in large (mainly construction) projects. Their main goal is to distract from what matters. - Justice fails to work, and blames the complex law system for that. Despite the fact that Greece enters a 30-year period of essentially foreign financial control, the media pretty much focuses on the triumph of no default. Greeks in general have a tendency to hypocritically pretend black is white, so, if anything, the deal will make the political parties who sank the whole country in debt to look as Jesus Savior (I am greek so i hope this is not taken as racist). I doubt anyone (hint, 2 persons: the previous prime minister, the finance minister when we entered the euro) will ever even be called to testify in justice about their wrongdoings. I 'm also curious to see how the rescue plan works out after this dust settles down (september maybe). Also interesting to see the real reaction of markets, after the August 2 distraction goes away

nickolai 15y ago
> So it's natural to always try to cheat, steal from "the state" and to pass these attitudes to their children Does this mean that - given the context you describe - Greece will be essentially unable to raise the resources needed to pay off even the extended maturity debts? I am merely being curious - please take no offence at my question - but what do you think are the chances that we see a 'hard default' in the coming years?
- ristretto 15y ago
  [edit: i changed my mind] I am not really optimistic, eventhough the EU will be overseeing the reforms, greece does not have a good record of conformance. In fact it has a very bad record of conformance, and, to be frank, the greek society does not want to change its attitudes. I expect similar renegotiations every 3 or so years. The "hard default" does not really depend on greece, it's a decision of whether the rest of europe allows it. Without EU protection, greece is already bankrupt.
RyanMcGreal 15y ago
> Are there many developed countries where father, son and grand-son, or uncle and nephew ALL become PMs in the past 30 years? The United States springs to mind: George H.R. Bush, Jeb Bush, George W. Bush.
- ry0ohki 15y ago
  To be fair Jeb Bush hasn't been president, and there are relatively few dynasties in the US (there's also the Kennedy's, the Gore's, the Paul's, but most don't make it to be President)
  - mdda 15y ago
    Funnily enough, this occurs much less in UK politics.
- ristretto 15y ago
  Is it like a political tradition that grandsons must bring the country to financial collapse?
  - mhb 15y ago
    Rags to rags in three generations.
tsycho 15y ago
> Are there many developed countries where father, son and grand-son, or uncle and nephew ALL become PMs in the past 30 years? Not in 30 yrs (more like 60), but India. J. Nehru, followed by his daughter Indira Gandhi, followed by her son, Rajiv Gandhi. There's even a reasonably good chance that his son, Rahul Gandhi might become a PM in the future, maybe the next one. Ironically, in his case, given the alternatives, many people actually consider this a good thing. But overall, I agree, such PM dynasties aren't a good thing.

nickolai 15y ago

> So it's natural to always try to cheat, steal from "the state" and to pass these attitudes to their children Does this mean that - given the context you describe - Greece will be essentially unable to raise the resources needed to pay off even the extended maturity debts? I am merely being curious - please take no offence at my question - but what do you think are the chances that we see a 'hard default' in the coming years?

ristretto 15y ago
[edit: i changed my mind] I am not really optimistic, eventhough the EU will be overseeing the reforms, greece does not have a good record of conformance. In fact it has a very bad record of conformance, and, to be frank, the greek society does not want to change its attitudes. I expect similar renegotiations every 3 or so years. The "hard default" does not really depend on greece, it's a decision of whether the rest of europe allows it. Without EU protection, greece is already bankrupt.

RyanMcGreal 15y ago

> Are there many developed countries where father, son and grand-son, or uncle and nephew ALL become PMs in the past 30 years? The United States springs to mind: George H.R. Bush, Jeb Bush, George W. Bush.

ry0ohki 15y ago
To be fair Jeb Bush hasn't been president, and there are relatively few dynasties in the US (there's also the Kennedy's, the Gore's, the Paul's, but most don't make it to be President)
- mdda 15y ago
  Funnily enough, this occurs much less in UK politics.
ristretto 15y ago
Is it like a political tradition that grandsons must bring the country to financial collapse?
- mhb 15y ago
  Rags to rags in three generations.

tsycho 15y ago

> Are there many developed countries where father, son and grand-son, or uncle and nephew ALL become PMs in the past 30 years? Not in 30 yrs (more like 60), but India. J. Nehru, followed by his daughter Indira Gandhi, followed by her son, Rajiv Gandhi. There's even a reasonably good chance that his son, Rahul Gandhi might become a PM in the future, maybe the next one. Ironically, in his case, given the alternatives, many people actually consider this a good thing. But overall, I agree, such PM dynasties aren't a good thing.