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"We programmed bots to go down rabbit-holes. Watch as TikTok's algorithm makes our bots go down rabbit holes!" Not saying TikTok isn't spooky. But: The effort

"We programmed bots to go down rabbit-holes. Watch as TikTok's algorithm makes our bots go down rabbit holes!" Not saying TikTok isn't spooky. But: The effort that went into making the viewer feel anxious while watching this was extreme; and the effort that went into actual explanation of the TikTok algorithm was minimal.

mattbee 5y ago
Yes this was a disappointing watch - they seemed to have gone to some effort to simulate a lot of accounts with interests, and testing some handwaving unspecified theories. But then they only detailed _one_ of those fake accounts, and it showed some pretty unsurprising results. If you hover over videos of X, it shows more of that - Kentucky, depression, romance etc. The only real discovery was the disparity between the TikTok spokesperson (who said that 7% of anyone's feed should be trying to broaden your interests) and their observation that those videos were in fact mostly adverts. And (sorta) that hitting Dislike doesn't seem to do much, if you counter than signal by watching/liking other videos. But it was all very vague given how much data they said they'd gathered. I agree I don't think the algorithm is particularly clever, or works towards any other goal than for users to spend more time with the app Which is the assumption I was starting from.
- winternett 5y ago
  I think the underlying point is that platforms are gearing their algorithms towards manipulation, and that a new user account has a pre-set path towards being rabbit holed to where most of the content they see can trap them into certain mindsets... This worries me a lot, because people generally think they are choosing what they want to see, but the platform can shape the world views of many people all at once. If you trap someone in a room and play violent videos for them all day long, when you let them out, they might come out thinking they'll have to fight for survival, just as an example. Governments can encourage political chaos through subjecting people to certain types of videos through these platforms over time, and as another example, they can influence certain regions to start a riot or vote a certain way. Behavioral psychologists are involved in algorithm development now just as much as developers and that's a big problem that most of the world, especially government regulators are totally unaware of. I have a TikTok account, but only use it in really small doses because I found the suggestive content really was not good for my mental health. I hope more people realize that this is happening, and also understand the lies about potential for sharing independent work on platforms because the platforms are really not geared towards discovery of new content, they have very specific agendas and money making at the foremost behind them.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
Perhaps it would be more useful if WSJ told us how they made "dozens of automated accounts". Everyone should be doing this. Why not. We could all be "investigating". Think of what we might learn. Automation is the future. Everyone should be learning it.
guerrilla 5y ago
It was FUD from the first minutes: Look at it highlighting security cameras at ByteDance and the ominous music.
dt123 5y ago
yeah I mean I pretty much already knew what it does is: - see what videos you watch and how long you stay watching them - show you more of the same which is all it is really saying, just spread out over 10 minutes edit:formatting

mattbee 5y ago

Yes this was a disappointing watch - they seemed to have gone to some effort to simulate a lot of accounts with interests, and testing some handwaving unspecified theories. But then they only detailed _one_ of those fake accounts, and it showed some pretty unsurprising results. If you hover over videos of X, it shows more of that - Kentucky, depression, romance etc. The only real discovery was the disparity between the TikTok spokesperson (who said that 7% of anyone's feed should be trying to broaden your interests) and their observation that those videos were in fact mostly adverts. And (sorta) that hitting Dislike doesn't seem to do much, if you counter than signal by watching/liking other videos. But it was all very vague given how much data they said they'd gathered. I agree I don't think the algorithm is particularly clever, or works towards any other goal than for users to spend more time with the app Which is the assumption I was starting from.

winternett 5y ago
I think the underlying point is that platforms are gearing their algorithms towards manipulation, and that a new user account has a pre-set path towards being rabbit holed to where most of the content they see can trap them into certain mindsets... This worries me a lot, because people generally think they are choosing what they want to see, but the platform can shape the world views of many people all at once. If you trap someone in a room and play violent videos for them all day long, when you let them out, they might come out thinking they'll have to fight for survival, just as an example. Governments can encourage political chaos through subjecting people to certain types of videos through these platforms over time, and as another example, they can influence certain regions to start a riot or vote a certain way. Behavioral psychologists are involved in algorithm development now just as much as developers and that's a big problem that most of the world, especially government regulators are totally unaware of. I have a TikTok account, but only use it in really small doses because I found the suggestive content really was not good for my mental health. I hope more people realize that this is happening, and also understand the lies about potential for sharing independent work on platforms because the platforms are really not geared towards discovery of new content, they have very specific agendas and money making at the foremost behind them.

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

Perhaps it would be more useful if WSJ told us how they made "dozens of automated accounts". Everyone should be doing this. Why not. We could all be "investigating". Think of what we might learn. Automation is the future. Everyone should be learning it.

guerrilla 5y ago

It was FUD from the first minutes: Look at it highlighting security cameras at ByteDance and the ominous music.

dt123 5y ago

yeah I mean I pretty much already knew what it does is: - see what videos you watch and how long you stay watching them - show you more of the same which is all it is really saying, just spread out over 10 minutes edit:formatting