5 ms·

Do you need a phone?

realusername 5y ago
When now you have banks & governement apps, I'd say that falls down under the definition of required / public infrastructure.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Plus access to public places via QR codes verifying you have been vaccinated / recently tested negative.
  - upofadown 5y ago
    But you are the one providing the QR code in that case so you can normally just print it out or get a card sent to you. You don't need a phone just to display an image...
    - Spivak 5y ago
      I've encountered a few apps where the QR codes are only valid for a few minutes and rotate. For your vaccine status it's probably not an issue but using QR codes to auth yourself for payments or access will probably be a no-go eventually.
- megous 5y ago
  The only thing I wasn't able to do without so far is SMS 2nd factor. Dumbphone is enough for that. I don't mind if banks/govs require use of some protocol. But forcing use of specific apps goes against past achievements to make public institutions use open formats and protocols, so I reject that where possible, or complain. It should not be acceptable. I still remember times when people had to pirate MS office to be able to open some .doc from their gov, or use MS windows to run some proprietary form filling software. That's mostly a thing of the past, thankfully. "My-app or highway" attitude feels like a setback in that regard.
  - sersi 5y ago
    My banks no longer allow SMS 2fa. The only 2fa available are those through their mobile app. So without android or iOS banking will quickly become impossible. And I wish I could just switch banks but in some situation it's not possible and in the country I currently live in, it seems that now no banks support 2fa SMS for any transaction above a tiny amount anyway.
    - ksec 5y ago
      In additional to those comments on banking and 2FA, these banking apps also requires certain version of Android and IOS ( rightly so because of security concern ). Which means you are now, in some way forced to upgrade your phone every x years if your phone no longer gets any software update.
  - realusername 5y ago
    In Europe, SMS 2fa is getting deprecated in favor of apps, you can still get a device generating tokens sent by post in most banks but who knows for how long they will keep that running.
  - calvin_ 5y ago
    Most of these apps are just dipping mustards around HOTP/TOTP, so it's a standard protocol. There's an ecosystem of standard applications around it; Twilio, Microsoft, and Google all make pretty popular ones.
    - megous 5y ago
      That sounds good, as long as the bank API for this is open and documented.
- ksec 5y ago
  Yes. One of the thing not mentioned or posted on HN. In China where there are flooding going on, a whole city with no power, and mobile network. Since their whole infrastructure was setup with Digital payment ( WeChat Pay or AliPay ) and dont use any cash, they could not use it without Mobile Network. Authentication and other Government usage also requires an App and unusable. Most people act as if Mobile Phone and Apps doesn't matter. It does and increasingly so. I think the argument would have some ground in 2015 or 2018. But in 2020 and forward looking into 2025 and 2030 there is no denying, phone is acting like an infrastructure, whether we like it or not.
newscracker 5y ago
Valid question, but having a phone and a phone number is increasingly becoming a basic necessity to participate in society and to interact with the governments. I wish it could be optional.
- swiley 5y ago
  >phone and phone number My ISP still provides (very low quality) landline service for a fraction of my monthly phone bill. The UI on that phone is awesome: just a speaker and dialpad, no display at all.

When now you have banks & governement apps, I'd say that falls down under the definition of required / public infrastructure.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Plus access to public places via QR codes verifying you have been vaccinated / recently tested negative.
- upofadown 5y ago
  But you are the one providing the QR code in that case so you can normally just print it out or get a card sent to you. You don't need a phone just to display an image...
  - Spivak 5y ago
    I've encountered a few apps where the QR codes are only valid for a few minutes and rotate. For your vaccine status it's probably not an issue but using QR codes to auth yourself for payments or access will probably be a no-go eventually.
megous 5y ago
The only thing I wasn't able to do without so far is SMS 2nd factor. Dumbphone is enough for that. I don't mind if banks/govs require use of some protocol. But forcing use of specific apps goes against past achievements to make public institutions use open formats and protocols, so I reject that where possible, or complain. It should not be acceptable. I still remember times when people had to pirate MS office to be able to open some .doc from their gov, or use MS windows to run some proprietary form filling software. That's mostly a thing of the past, thankfully. "My-app or highway" attitude feels like a setback in that regard.
- sersi 5y ago
  My banks no longer allow SMS 2fa. The only 2fa available are those through their mobile app. So without android or iOS banking will quickly become impossible. And I wish I could just switch banks but in some situation it's not possible and in the country I currently live in, it seems that now no banks support 2fa SMS for any transaction above a tiny amount anyway.
  - ksec 5y ago
    In additional to those comments on banking and 2FA, these banking apps also requires certain version of Android and IOS ( rightly so because of security concern ). Which means you are now, in some way forced to upgrade your phone every x years if your phone no longer gets any software update.
- realusername 5y ago
  In Europe, SMS 2fa is getting deprecated in favor of apps, you can still get a device generating tokens sent by post in most banks but who knows for how long they will keep that running.
- calvin_ 5y ago
  Most of these apps are just dipping mustards around HOTP/TOTP, so it's a standard protocol. There's an ecosystem of standard applications around it; Twilio, Microsoft, and Google all make pretty popular ones.
  - megous 5y ago
    That sounds good, as long as the bank API for this is open and documented.
ksec 5y ago
Yes. One of the thing not mentioned or posted on HN. In China where there are flooding going on, a whole city with no power, and mobile network. Since their whole infrastructure was setup with Digital payment ( WeChat Pay or AliPay ) and dont use any cash, they could not use it without Mobile Network. Authentication and other Government usage also requires an App and unusable. Most people act as if Mobile Phone and Apps doesn't matter. It does and increasingly so. I think the argument would have some ground in 2015 or 2018. But in 2020 and forward looking into 2025 and 2030 there is no denying, phone is acting like an infrastructure, whether we like it or not.

newscracker 5y ago

Valid question, but having a phone and a phone number is increasingly becoming a basic necessity to participate in society and to interact with the governments. I wish it could be optional.

swiley 5y ago
>phone and phone number My ISP still provides (very low quality) landline service for a fraction of my monthly phone bill. The UI on that phone is awesome: just a speaker and dialpad, no display at all.