4 ms·

Maybe it's because I'm often looking at business-oriented laptops as a consumer, but I usually find the RAM and storage to be on the low side compared to the CP

by Delk 5y ago

Maybe it's because I'm often looking at business-oriented laptops as a consumer, but I usually find the RAM and storage to be on the low side compared to the CPU specs. I don't need a top-of-the-line i7 CPU (the improvement when going from e.g. an i5 usually isn't enough to really matter), and the premium you pay isn't negligible. On the other hand, the lower-end models that don't splurge on an i7 and come with a mid-range CPU such as an i5 instead still often have only 8 GB of RAM. That's definitely not future-proof or even present-proof for a laptop that otherwise has mid-range specs in terms of performance. It seems ridiculous that you have to either pay for a top-of-the-line model or be stuck with sub-par RAM for the entire lifetime of the device. Corporations will of course happily buy the higher-end model for their developers, so this probably isn't a problem in an actual corporate environment.

emodendroket 5y ago
Supporting tons of slightly different configurations is an impediment to efficient operations though. There’s some logic to doing things that way.
- thow-01187 5y ago
  Unfortunately, more often than not, the logic behind it is market segmentation, not technical or operational efficiency
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I'm not sure which is the main thing and which is the pleasant side effect but I have to imagine both considerations enter their minds.
- davidy123 5y ago
  I don't see why that's the case for Lenovo though (which I'm most familiar with - Thinkpads), since you have to order online. They could do batches of different configurations, it might add a small delay for particular configurations, but that would be ok. What they do now, mostly limiting larger RAM/storage configs to top end CPUs, seems like an upsell (though at least their storage is usually replaceable, and aftermarket offers better price/choice, though the spare small capacity device is a waste). In Apple's case, it simply seems like an upsell. They must have enough volume to sell lower spec, large storage capacity Macbook Airs at stores, or online.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Most people buy low end machines from Apple. They just keep volume handy. Although recently when I went to Apple store they had no stock at all here in the UK of anything. Literally emptied out.
    - davidy123 5y ago
      Yes, but how much does it cost Apple to put a larger volume in, compared to what they charge the consumer for that one feature? I have very often seen Apple users hampered by this, including losing data due to having to juggle external storage. Upsell.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  Tell that to European car manufacturers, almost no two cars are identical. I've heard that some models have more possible variations than there are v6 addresses.
- Delk 5y ago
  If some of the components such as RAM were made replaceable, that wouldn't be the OEM's problem. They could still ship only a few configurations. When you decided the original RAM or storage isn't enough, you'd just ask your local shop to upgrade. I'm not even asking for upgradeable CPUs or GPUs. Those could be a bit complicated on laptops due to chipset compatibility, power and thermal design issues, etc. But RAM is relatively cheap, can be made relatively easy to replace, and is a common thing to run low on. The same pretty much goes for storage. It seems weird and counter-productive to have components like that be soldered in and non-replaceable even by a professional.
dsr_ 5y ago
The approach Qualcomm has taken in their flagship ARM processors is probably correct for laptops as well as phones. There are four low-power single thread cores. They do grunt work at high efficiency but low capability. There are three medium-power single thread cores. They suck up more electricity when in use but can get tasks that the user cares about accomplished, and sleep all the time that the phone is not running the UI. Then there is one high-power single thread core, which is just a turbo-speed variant of the medium cores. That's the one that wakes up for user interaction. Of course, if you can scale power-consumption and computing together, you would just make an 8-core high-power chip and sleep and throttle on demand -- or, in-between, Apple's M1, which has four low and four high cores.
- schmorptron 5y ago
  There are somewhat reliable rumors that intel are doing exactly this big.LITTLE config in the near future. [0] https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introduce-big-and-small-cores-for-x86-desktop-market/ https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introdu...
  - nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut 5y ago
    It isn't a rumor. Intel announced it at CES. https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-at-ces-2021-calling-them-a-significant-breakthrough https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-...
  - piyh 5y ago
    The reviews on those Intel heterogenous cores were terrible in both battery life and performance. Intel gonna Intel.
    - schmorptron 5y ago
      Maybe they're looking to start on a clean slate with their RISC-V investments then, they're late to the ARM game and will never catch up to apple or probably even qualcomm, their x86 designs are slowly and surely dropping off, and they'd have to make massive strides to change that.
nrp 5y ago
This was definitely a driver for us. We want to let consumers buy exactly the machine they need in the near term (CPU, memory, and storage), and be able to upgrade just the parts that they need to later.

by Delk 5y ago

emodendroket 5y ago

Supporting tons of slightly different configurations is an impediment to efficient operations though. There’s some logic to doing things that way.

thow-01187 5y ago
Unfortunately, more often than not, the logic behind it is market segmentation, not technical or operational efficiency
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I'm not sure which is the main thing and which is the pleasant side effect but I have to imagine both considerations enter their minds.
davidy123 5y ago
I don't see why that's the case for Lenovo though (which I'm most familiar with - Thinkpads), since you have to order online. They could do batches of different configurations, it might add a small delay for particular configurations, but that would be ok. What they do now, mostly limiting larger RAM/storage configs to top end CPUs, seems like an upsell (though at least their storage is usually replaceable, and aftermarket offers better price/choice, though the spare small capacity device is a waste). In Apple's case, it simply seems like an upsell. They must have enough volume to sell lower spec, large storage capacity Macbook Airs at stores, or online.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Most people buy low end machines from Apple. They just keep volume handy. Although recently when I went to Apple store they had no stock at all here in the UK of anything. Literally emptied out.
  - davidy123 5y ago
    Yes, but how much does it cost Apple to put a larger volume in, compared to what they charge the consumer for that one feature? I have very often seen Apple users hampered by this, including losing data due to having to juggle external storage. Upsell.
formerly_proven 5y ago
Tell that to European car manufacturers, almost no two cars are identical. I've heard that some models have more possible variations than there are v6 addresses.
Delk 5y ago
If some of the components such as RAM were made replaceable, that wouldn't be the OEM's problem. They could still ship only a few configurations. When you decided the original RAM or storage isn't enough, you'd just ask your local shop to upgrade. I'm not even asking for upgradeable CPUs or GPUs. Those could be a bit complicated on laptops due to chipset compatibility, power and thermal design issues, etc. But RAM is relatively cheap, can be made relatively easy to replace, and is a common thing to run low on. The same pretty much goes for storage. It seems weird and counter-productive to have components like that be soldered in and non-replaceable even by a professional.

dsr_ 5y ago

The approach Qualcomm has taken in their flagship ARM processors is probably correct for laptops as well as phones. There are four low-power single thread cores. They do grunt work at high efficiency but low capability. There are three medium-power single thread cores. They suck up more electricity when in use but can get tasks that the user cares about accomplished, and sleep all the time that the phone is not running the UI. Then there is one high-power single thread core, which is just a turbo-speed variant of the medium cores. That's the one that wakes up for user interaction. Of course, if you can scale power-consumption and computing together, you would just make an 8-core high-power chip and sleep and throttle on demand -- or, in-between, Apple's M1, which has four low and four high cores.

schmorptron 5y ago
There are somewhat reliable rumors that intel are doing exactly this big.LITTLE config in the near future. [0] https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introduce-big-and-small-cores-for-x86-desktop-market/ https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introdu...
- nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut 5y ago
  It isn't a rumor. Intel announced it at CES. https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-at-ces-2021-calling-them-a-significant-breakthrough https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-...
- piyh 5y ago
  The reviews on those Intel heterogenous cores were terrible in both battery life and performance. Intel gonna Intel.
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    Maybe they're looking to start on a clean slate with their RISC-V investments then, they're late to the ARM game and will never catch up to apple or probably even qualcomm, their x86 designs are slowly and surely dropping off, and they'd have to make massive strides to change that.

nrp 5y ago

This was definitely a driver for us. We want to let consumers buy exactly the machine they need in the near term (CPU, memory, and storage), and be able to upgrade just the parts that they need to later.