6 ms·

Completely untrue. The reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals is what is providing a place for Covid to hide and mutate. Vax critics were silenced and r

by evgen 5y ago

Completely untrue. The reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals is what is providing a place for Covid to hide and mutate. Vax critics were silenced and ridiculed because they are dangerous deceivers who need to be called out and held to account for the consequences of their lies.

native_samples 5y ago
That's not something that's ever been a problem with vaccines before. Even if you have unshakeable faith in this evidence-free perversion of biological theory, nobody was claiming the vaccines will fail without 100% adoption last year when they launched. Their reception would have been rather different if that had been claimed, wouldn't it? So you can either believe this is true, in which case governments and pharma firms deceived people about the nature of the 'vaccine', or you can believe it's false and they didn't. But you can't believe it's true and it's the other people who are deceivers. That makes no logical sense.
- samus 5y ago
  It's a general issue with every vaccine against an illness that has a reservoir. The reservoir can be other species (birds and various other animals in case of influenza) or it can be human populations that for various reasons have not eliminated the spread of the illness yet (measles in countries that refuse or make it difficult to vaccinate, polio if not completely eradicated yet). In this reservoir the agent has opportunity to mutate, and it can never be excluded that at some point it makes inroads into populations again where it was eradicated before. Global eradication of diseases has been achieved with smallpox and bovine rinderpest precisely because they had no natural reservoir and all vulnerable populations could be vaccinated. With Coronaviruses the situation is not so simple, but it should at least be possible to eradicate the currently relevant variant.
thirsty-dove 5y ago
It's not selfish to decline a medical procedure one thinks is unlikely to benefit oneself. Furthermore, it's malpractice for a doctor to advise a patient to undergo a medical procedure that is not more likely than not to benefit that specific patient. Your attitude is what's dangerous.
- deathcakes 5y ago
  Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    How can you be sure of the absence of long term negative consequences?
  - thirsty-dove 5y ago
    > that is the definition of selfish You're assuming you possess godlike knowledge, when actually we can't be sure what actions will lead to beneficial or harmful results. Are you selfish for refusing to undergo castration? What if I'm really sure it would benefit society? This is one of the many reasons we consider people sovereign over their own bodies. > I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't. We don't know if that's true, but we're not off to a good start considering the current number of harm/death reports in VAERS.
    - Grimm1 5y ago
      Hundreds of millions have been vaccinated, there are like double digit cases of issues (per million) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... Your risk index is poor. Like conversely, your chance of getting hit by a car is 1 in 5000, so I guess you shouldn't ever leave your house again. https://www.reference.com/world-view/odds-getting-hit-car-8153e02f5ac36140#:~:text=Based%20on%20information%20provided%20by,are%20about%20one%20in%2047%2C273 https://www.reference.com/world-view/odds-getting-hit-car-81....
  - effie 5y ago
    This argument was proposed by Nazi "doctors", they were doing experiments on patients to "benefit the nation". Of course, this argument didn't work and they got their sentences.
makomk 5y ago
So far, the "reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals" that the virus has mutated in is people who literally could not get vaccinated because there weren't enough vaccines available. The most important variants so far have showed up in the UK before any vaccines were approved, South Africa during their vaccine clinical trials (rendering the vaccine they were planning on using effectively useless), and India which is just too big to vaccinate quickly at current production levels.
bananapear 5y ago
> selfish unvaccinated individuals "selfish" implies you think there is some benefit to those individuals in declining it. What do you think that is?
- QuadmasterXLII 5y ago
  You fail to take into account. that they might be stupid and selfish.

by evgen 5y ago

native_samples 5y ago

That's not something that's ever been a problem with vaccines before. Even if you have unshakeable faith in this evidence-free perversion of biological theory, nobody was claiming the vaccines will fail without 100% adoption last year when they launched. Their reception would have been rather different if that had been claimed, wouldn't it? So you can either believe this is true, in which case governments and pharma firms deceived people about the nature of the 'vaccine', or you can believe it's false and they didn't. But you can't believe it's true and it's the other people who are deceivers. That makes no logical sense.

samus 5y ago
It's a general issue with every vaccine against an illness that has a reservoir. The reservoir can be other species (birds and various other animals in case of influenza) or it can be human populations that for various reasons have not eliminated the spread of the illness yet (measles in countries that refuse or make it difficult to vaccinate, polio if not completely eradicated yet). In this reservoir the agent has opportunity to mutate, and it can never be excluded that at some point it makes inroads into populations again where it was eradicated before. Global eradication of diseases has been achieved with smallpox and bovine rinderpest precisely because they had no natural reservoir and all vulnerable populations could be vaccinated. With Coronaviruses the situation is not so simple, but it should at least be possible to eradicate the currently relevant variant.

thirsty-dove 5y ago

It's not selfish to decline a medical procedure one thinks is unlikely to benefit oneself. Furthermore, it's malpractice for a doctor to advise a patient to undergo a medical procedure that is not more likely than not to benefit that specific patient. Your attitude is what's dangerous.

deathcakes 5y ago
Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.
- pigeonhole123 5y ago
  How can you be sure of the absence of long term negative consequences?
- thirsty-dove 5y ago
  > that is the definition of selfish You're assuming you possess godlike knowledge, when actually we can't be sure what actions will lead to beneficial or harmful results. Are you selfish for refusing to undergo castration? What if I'm really sure it would benefit society? This is one of the many reasons we consider people sovereign over their own bodies. > I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't. We don't know if that's true, but we're not off to a good start considering the current number of harm/death reports in VAERS.
  - Grimm1 5y ago
    Hundreds of millions have been vaccinated, there are like double digit cases of issues (per million) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... Your risk index is poor. Like conversely, your chance of getting hit by a car is 1 in 5000, so I guess you shouldn't ever leave your house again. https://www.reference.com/world-view/odds-getting-hit-car-8153e02f5ac36140#:~:text=Based%20on%20information%20provided%20by,are%20about%20one%20in%2047%2C273 https://www.reference.com/world-view/odds-getting-hit-car-81....
- effie 5y ago
  This argument was proposed by Nazi "doctors", they were doing experiments on patients to "benefit the nation". Of course, this argument didn't work and they got their sentences.

makomk 5y ago

So far, the "reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals" that the virus has mutated in is people who literally could not get vaccinated because there weren't enough vaccines available. The most important variants so far have showed up in the UK before any vaccines were approved, South Africa during their vaccine clinical trials (rendering the vaccine they were planning on using effectively useless), and India which is just too big to vaccinate quickly at current production levels.

bananapear 5y ago

> selfish unvaccinated individuals "selfish" implies you think there is some benefit to those individuals in declining it. What do you think that is?

QuadmasterXLII 5y ago
You fail to take into account. that they might be stupid and selfish.