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What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop th

What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop thinner. What were you expecting, a DIMM slot that's taller than the actual laptop body?

plater 5y ago
For the very thinnest of laptops it's probably difficult without soldering the chips on board, but many users would prefer a slightly thicker laptop where you can replace the RAM, SSD etc. I have never had a laptop where the thickness has been an issue and I have done a fair share of traveling while working in sales. It's like a thoughtless race to make the thinnest laptop as if that is something that is useful. I bit like the megapixel race a few years ago. "We do it because it's difficult, but we can" kind of thing. And then we have the aluminum body used on higher end laptops. Is that really better than high-end well designed plastic? When using my wife's Macbook Air M1 I suffer from the razor sharp edges while typing. (Maybe not related to it's thinness or aluminum body, but a big design issue). Has anyone noticed on the Macbook Air M1 the small vibrations it causes in the hands/palms when you slide them over the palmrest ever so slightly? Extremely annoying.
- kaszanka 5y ago
  I bet these "small vibrations" are due to some kind of coupling between the mains and the case. Dunno, not an electrical engineer. See if it still happens on battery power.
  - plater 5y ago
    No, it's nothing electrical. It's all mechanical. It's the surface which is slightly striped or bubbly or whatever and when sliding the hand or finger lightly over it, it generates a vibrating feeling. It might be less now after some months of use. Maybe the small cracks are filled with finger fat or something :). The sharp edges are still there though.
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      Are you sure? I've also had this vibrating issue and for me 100% it was some sort of grounding issue with the power. Have you tried testing it when the ac adapter is disconnected? Its sort of feels like a very low amperage electrocution whenever you rest your hand on the laptop(if you know what getting electrocuted feels like)
  - nrp 5y ago
    That is likely correct. Lenovo has an article about it here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505170-information-about-the-mild-tingling-sensation https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505170-informat... We actually use a 3-prong AC cable to prevent this from occurring.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop thinner. THIS is nonsense. Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon and LIFEBOOK series come to mind). Just recently they abandoned this and moved to soldering everything. The Framework Laptop also has upgradable everything and it's not super thick now, is it? Sure, if you want to set a world record for thinness just because, then sure, soldering everything saves you a couple of mm but it's not why they do it in most cases, but to force planned obsolescence.
- raffraffraff 5y ago
  Who's got the balls to disagree with Chuck Norris? I would usually go for a smaller, lighter laptop (13"). But within that form factor, given choice over trade offs, I would put performance last (any modern system will usually do), size and weight somewhere in the middle, battery life and repairability at the top.
- morganvachon 5y ago
  > Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon... You're just throwing names out there without even knowing what you're talking about. The very first generation X1 Carbon came with soldered RAM and no upgrade path, and that hasn't changed yet. I know this because I've owned several generations of that laptop. I just checked Wikipedia to back up my memory before posting and yes, every X1 Carbon has had soldered RAM going all the way back to the first generation with Ivy Bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series#X1_Carbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series#X1_Carbon
  - vimacs2 5y ago
    I would point out though that while he might have been wrong on the X1 Carbon, you still have not really dismantled the key argument - that you don't need to embrace soldered RAM to get laptops that are thin enough. At a certain point, you're just going to end up with an experience that is objectively worse since keyboards start having more and more give the thinner you make them (not to mention far worse feel). I'd make the trade off for more mm of thickness anyway.

plater 5y ago

For the very thinnest of laptops it's probably difficult without soldering the chips on board, but many users would prefer a slightly thicker laptop where you can replace the RAM, SSD etc. I have never had a laptop where the thickness has been an issue and I have done a fair share of traveling while working in sales. It's like a thoughtless race to make the thinnest laptop as if that is something that is useful. I bit like the megapixel race a few years ago. "We do it because it's difficult, but we can" kind of thing. And then we have the aluminum body used on higher end laptops. Is that really better than high-end well designed plastic? When using my wife's Macbook Air M1 I suffer from the razor sharp edges while typing. (Maybe not related to it's thinness or aluminum body, but a big design issue). Has anyone noticed on the Macbook Air M1 the small vibrations it causes in the hands/palms when you slide them over the palmrest ever so slightly? Extremely annoying.

kaszanka 5y ago
I bet these "small vibrations" are due to some kind of coupling between the mains and the case. Dunno, not an electrical engineer. See if it still happens on battery power.
- plater 5y ago
  No, it's nothing electrical. It's all mechanical. It's the surface which is slightly striped or bubbly or whatever and when sliding the hand or finger lightly over it, it generates a vibrating feeling. It might be less now after some months of use. Maybe the small cracks are filled with finger fat or something :). The sharp edges are still there though.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    Are you sure? I've also had this vibrating issue and for me 100% it was some sort of grounding issue with the power. Have you tried testing it when the ac adapter is disconnected? Its sort of feels like a very low amperage electrocution whenever you rest your hand on the laptop(if you know what getting electrocuted feels like)
- nrp 5y ago
  That is likely correct. Lenovo has an article about it here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505170-information-about-the-mild-tingling-sensation https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505170-informat... We actually use a 3-prong AC cable to prevent this from occurring.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>What a bunch of nonsense. These are tiny laptops, and every bit of space inside is used. Soldering on RAM chips is an obvious optimization to make the laptop thinner. THIS is nonsense. Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon and LIFEBOOK series come to mind). Just recently they abandoned this and moved to soldering everything. The Framework Laptop also has upgradable everything and it's not super thick now, is it? Sure, if you want to set a world record for thinness just because, then sure, soldering everything saves you a couple of mm but it's not why they do it in most cases, but to force planned obsolescence.

raffraffraff 5y ago
Who's got the balls to disagree with Chuck Norris? I would usually go for a smaller, lighter laptop (13"). But within that form factor, given choice over trade offs, I would put performance last (any modern system will usually do), size and weight somewhere in the middle, battery life and repairability at the top.
morganvachon 5y ago
> Dell, HP, Lenovo, even Fujitsu-Siemens have been making thin laptops with upgradable RAM for years now (XPS, X1 Carbon... You're just throwing names out there without even knowing what you're talking about. The very first generation X1 Carbon came with soldered RAM and no upgrade path, and that hasn't changed yet. I know this because I've owned several generations of that laptop. I just checked Wikipedia to back up my memory before posting and yes, every X1 Carbon has had soldered RAM going all the way back to the first generation with Ivy Bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series#X1_Carbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series#X1_Carbon
- vimacs2 5y ago
  I would point out though that while he might have been wrong on the X1 Carbon, you still have not really dismantled the key argument - that you don't need to embrace soldered RAM to get laptops that are thin enough. At a certain point, you're just going to end up with an experience that is objectively worse since keyboards start having more and more give the thinner you make them (not to mention far worse feel). I'd make the trade off for more mm of thickness anyway.