3 ms·

This seems like a reasonable and thorough response. They revised and cut unnecessary bits and added clarification where possible within a reasonable time frame

This seems like a reasonable and thorough response. They revised and cut unnecessary bits and added clarification where possible within a reasonable time frame for these matters. Good job. I really don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth against even the principle of adding update checking and error reporting features. Real, regular people will get tangible benefits from these features. Their scope is so limited and implementation (now) drawn down to such a sharp point I can't really sympathize with a hard-line counterposition that these features must be defacto evil.

TeMPOraL 5y ago
The "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is against updates and error checking being opt-out, or even not opt-outable at all. Sometimes this gets mixed with observations that telemetry and auto-updates are modern-day antipatterns, encouraging bad software development practices and resulting in subpar products. Personally, I feel that a ToS/privacy policy for Audacity would be more palatable if it explicitly limited scope of data collection to optional features of update checks and error reports.
- rhizome 5y ago
  The question of data collection could use a little reverse consideration: what could Audacity possibly collect that would be of interest to law enforcement? The only thing I can think of is IP address with a timestamp (which I'm not sure would be admissible as evidence anywhere) given their current stance, or....more? They want to add video so they have to be prepared for e.g. pedo interest? The circumstances in the movie "Blow Up?" I really can't think of anything from the real world. Beyond that, there's nothing that requires them to allow for this in their TOS. There's no loose end by not including it; it's not a 't' to be crossed or an 'i' to be dotted. I'm eager to be corrected, but I just don't see why they'd need to change the TOS at all except to replace some ownership info.
- infogulch 5y ago
  I had a big comment drafted but I'm realizing that I'm basically copy-pasting the whole policy and comments (as said elsewhere itt, "Everything is now as opt-in as it can be expected to be"), so it would be quicker and more accurate to ask you to just read the new privacy notice directly to see that everything you asked for and more is already present. It's quite readable: https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/ https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/
bmn__ 5y ago
You have to come up with the modicum of empathy to put yourself in the shoes of the users to be able to understand why they are angry. • You must acknowledge that privacy is a basic human right.¹ Maybe you were brought up in a culture where these rights don't count; well, here's your opportunity to learn and grow. Maybe you have simply forgotten your school lessons, that's not good and the blame falls squarely on your shoulders then. • The users were promised UI improvements and an eighth zoom button, instead they got malicious software and bad treatment from the new owners. • Look at what Muse originally planned, not what they compromised to after the public push-back. • There is a person at Muse named Daniel Ray who is a sociopath and lacks the basic decency/internal filter in communicating with other people and utter lack of self-preservation for avoiding bad consequences for himself, such that he thinks that threatening a software developer on public Github with doxxing him into the gulag is an acceptable thing to do. ¹ Let's see how these rephrases violating some other human rights feel: "I really don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth against even the principle of forced castration and hysterectomy." "I really don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth against even the principle of trading and using chattel slaves."

TeMPOraL 5y ago

The "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is against updates and error checking being opt-out, or even not opt-outable at all. Sometimes this gets mixed with observations that telemetry and auto-updates are modern-day antipatterns, encouraging bad software development practices and resulting in subpar products. Personally, I feel that a ToS/privacy policy for Audacity would be more palatable if it explicitly limited scope of data collection to optional features of update checks and error reports.

rhizome 5y ago
The question of data collection could use a little reverse consideration: what could Audacity possibly collect that would be of interest to law enforcement? The only thing I can think of is IP address with a timestamp (which I'm not sure would be admissible as evidence anywhere) given their current stance, or....more? They want to add video so they have to be prepared for e.g. pedo interest? The circumstances in the movie "Blow Up?" I really can't think of anything from the real world. Beyond that, there's nothing that requires them to allow for this in their TOS. There's no loose end by not including it; it's not a 't' to be crossed or an 'i' to be dotted. I'm eager to be corrected, but I just don't see why they'd need to change the TOS at all except to replace some ownership info.
infogulch 5y ago
I had a big comment drafted but I'm realizing that I'm basically copy-pasting the whole policy and comments (as said elsewhere itt, "Everything is now as opt-in as it can be expected to be"), so it would be quicker and more accurate to ask you to just read the new privacy notice directly to see that everything you asked for and more is already present. It's quite readable: https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/ https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/

bmn__ 5y ago

You have to come up with the modicum of empathy to put yourself in the shoes of the users to be able to understand why they are angry. • You must acknowledge that privacy is a basic human right.¹ Maybe you were brought up in a culture where these rights don't count; well, here's your opportunity to learn and grow. Maybe you have simply forgotten your school lessons, that's not good and the blame falls squarely on your shoulders then. • The users were promised UI improvements and an eighth zoom button, instead they got malicious software and bad treatment from the new owners. • Look at what Muse originally planned, not what they compromised to after the public push-back. • There is a person at Muse named Daniel Ray who is a sociopath and lacks the basic decency/internal filter in communicating with other people and utter lack of self-preservation for avoiding bad consequences for himself, such that he thinks that threatening a software developer on public Github with doxxing him into the gulag is an acceptable thing to do. ¹ Let's see how these rephrases violating some other human rights feel: "I really don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth against even the principle of forced castration and hysterectomy." "I really don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth against even the principle of trading and using chattel slaves."