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Is a doctor also going to publish achievements? A construction engineer should he/she publish calc of beam dimensions? A carpenter how should he/her show creat

Is a doctor also going to publish achievements? A construction engineer should he/she publish calc of beam dimensions? A carpenter how should he/her show creations. If it was doors or windows installed in people's houses. Something is wrong here in this industry.

simonw 5y ago
I would hope that carpenters would include photographs of their work as part of an interview process.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  I guess I'd also point out that some doctors might be expected to give talks and publish findings etc.
- jschwartzi 5y ago
  Depends. If you’re a framer they just want to know if you have tools and when you can start. If you’re a lead it’s important to know stuff like how to square a foundation and calculate stair risers and hips/valleys, and you should be familiar with different hardware and where it goes. But nobody is going to ask you about which cracker-jack spec houses you built at your last job.
harvey9 5y ago
Some Doctors publish research, and put that on their resumes.
- benrbray 5y ago
  Doctors are also licensed for their specialty by a medical board.
  - alibarber 5y ago
    Yes but at some point there will be a position such as 'senior doctor of whatever' and having a medical licence would be taken as a given, and yet there will be some competition for that place. I don't know really if these discussions are around hiring for your average SE role or something more specific though.
TrackerFF 5y ago
I think the crux of the matter is that for almost all other such professions (MD, Engineers, Lawyers, etc.), there is a more formal type of gatekeeping when it comes to recruiting. Education, licenses, and similar - often in combination. The world of software development is MUCH more open to people that necessarily don't have the correct formalities, because there's a common knowledge that there are tons of talented people that never studied CS / Software Engineering / etc. That, combined with high pay, of course attracts a lot of incompetent people. So what would the solution be, to require all "professional" developers to have a degree and/or some professional license? I mean, yes, it could work - just look at the Cisco certification system. Some of those are quite rigorous, so the networking industry knows that if you hire someone that hold certain certs, they're probably competent. But, then again, most the certifications boom of the 90s kinda died out. That's why we're stuck with the grinding leetcode + technical interviews + side projects situation today.
- wreath 5y ago
  Id rather grind leetcode and system design problems and get credentials for it and dont have to again. Wait.. thats what my university degree was for..
  - TrackerFF 5y ago
    Yes - but for some reason, there's this extreme (irrational?) fear that imposers might have coasted through Uni., and you get these infamous blogs and articles stating that "comp. sci graduates can't code anymore! candidate failed fizzbuzz!", and everyone seems to have their own anecdote about that one co-worker that couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag. It seems like we're in a situation where companies would rather pass on 10 competent devs, rather than hire 1 incompetent dev. Personally, I think most of the above boils down to bias. You only remember the best and the worst coders you meet in your life, as far as work quality goes. And those are outliers. Coding interviews are stressing, so you can end up with competent candidates completely blocking due to the stress, and thus failing trivial problems. Anecdotes seem to be the gold standard, as far as evidence goes.
codingdave 5y ago
Every contractor I've ever hired to work on my home has a portfolio of projects they can show. Modernized folks have them online, old-school folks have binders they'll bring in to show you, but they have them, and will also provide references. As will doctors, BTW, especially surgeons. Asking to see examples of prior work is in no way unique to technology.

simonw 5y ago

I would hope that carpenters would include photographs of their work as part of an interview process.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
I guess I'd also point out that some doctors might be expected to give talks and publish findings etc.
jschwartzi 5y ago
Depends. If you’re a framer they just want to know if you have tools and when you can start. If you’re a lead it’s important to know stuff like how to square a foundation and calculate stair risers and hips/valleys, and you should be familiar with different hardware and where it goes. But nobody is going to ask you about which cracker-jack spec houses you built at your last job.

harvey9 5y ago

Some Doctors publish research, and put that on their resumes.

benrbray 5y ago
Doctors are also licensed for their specialty by a medical board.
- alibarber 5y ago
  Yes but at some point there will be a position such as 'senior doctor of whatever' and having a medical licence would be taken as a given, and yet there will be some competition for that place. I don't know really if these discussions are around hiring for your average SE role or something more specific though.

TrackerFF 5y ago

I think the crux of the matter is that for almost all other such professions (MD, Engineers, Lawyers, etc.), there is a more formal type of gatekeeping when it comes to recruiting. Education, licenses, and similar - often in combination. The world of software development is MUCH more open to people that necessarily don't have the correct formalities, because there's a common knowledge that there are tons of talented people that never studied CS / Software Engineering / etc. That, combined with high pay, of course attracts a lot of incompetent people. So what would the solution be, to require all "professional" developers to have a degree and/or some professional license? I mean, yes, it could work - just look at the Cisco certification system. Some of those are quite rigorous, so the networking industry knows that if you hire someone that hold certain certs, they're probably competent. But, then again, most the certifications boom of the 90s kinda died out. That's why we're stuck with the grinding leetcode + technical interviews + side projects situation today.

wreath 5y ago
Id rather grind leetcode and system design problems and get credentials for it and dont have to again. Wait.. thats what my university degree was for..
- TrackerFF 5y ago
  Yes - but for some reason, there's this extreme (irrational?) fear that imposers might have coasted through Uni., and you get these infamous blogs and articles stating that "comp. sci graduates can't code anymore! candidate failed fizzbuzz!", and everyone seems to have their own anecdote about that one co-worker that couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag. It seems like we're in a situation where companies would rather pass on 10 competent devs, rather than hire 1 incompetent dev. Personally, I think most of the above boils down to bias. You only remember the best and the worst coders you meet in your life, as far as work quality goes. And those are outliers. Coding interviews are stressing, so you can end up with competent candidates completely blocking due to the stress, and thus failing trivial problems. Anecdotes seem to be the gold standard, as far as evidence goes.

codingdave 5y ago

Every contractor I've ever hired to work on my home has a portfolio of projects they can show. Modernized folks have them online, old-school folks have binders they'll bring in to show you, but they have them, and will also provide references. As will doctors, BTW, especially surgeons. Asking to see examples of prior work is in no way unique to technology.