5 ms·

Had to see for myself[1][2]. Seriously...what are you guys smoking? - topside (primary servicing end) ...and then there's: - frontside (replaceable bezel, ma

Had to see for myself[1][2]. Seriously...what are you guys smoking? - topside (primary servicing end) ...and then there's: - frontside (replaceable bezel, magnetic retention) - underside (venting pattern, 6 less securing screws) - keyboard layout (escape, arrows, tilde, backslash, left ctrl, delete) - power button (location, fingerprint reader integration) - peripheral support (modular af, reconfigurable, select your charger side) - camera, mic (integrated lockout) - lid opening extruded cut (narrower span) - internals (design for maintainability of the highest order; so different it's not even worth enumerating) - documentation (digital first approach, baked onto every sub-assembly) Wish I could get a closer look at the bezel electronics. What other details did I miss? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-TFTvjIl4o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-TFTvjIl4o [2] https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/swift3 https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/swift3

numpad0 5y ago
Mainboard/logicboard is exactly the same. Left side of the logicboard in the original Acer design is connected via a flex cable, which is where modularity daughterboard goes, which means that that part is custom and probably just a USB-C. The main opening being on topside as opposed to bottom means the enclosure is custom made. So what. Overall it’s not something that we are smoking, it’s basic understanding in laptops and modern electronics.
- nrp 5y ago
  Apologies, but I don't see it either. The internals of that Acer: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/0/csm_Acer_Swift_3_SF313_Wartung_b86c2e53d0.jpg https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/0/csm_... The internals of the Framework Laptop: https://images.prismic.io/frameworkmarketplace/df9863d8-4512-4ae0-8037-b74f596918f9_Blog21010+-+Pre+Order+Waitlist+-+img02.jpg https://images.prismic.io/frameworkmarketplace/df9863d8-4512...
- metaphor 5y ago
  I fail to see the merits of your argument based on some handwaving interpretation of "exactly the same". Merely speculating that FFC interconnect is "probably just a USB-C" says absolutely nothing of the fact that Acer's system is neither truly modular (because it's fundamentally constrained to specific I/O interface by its own case) nor externally reconfigurable by the user. Nevermind that Framework's design appears to sensibly apply what was intended to be floating interconnect (USB-C male) to a fixed peripheral module interface on both sides, which is a huge value add from a user configuration perspective on the merits of being able to choose what side your charger port is installed on alone. So what about the enclosure being custom made?? Oh I don't know, nevermind completely disrespecting mechanical design considerations and effort applied towards targeted maintainability which have a direct impact on internal layout, user ease-of-self-service considerations that quite frankly the rest of the consumer laptop market clearly hasn't given an ounce of attention. That Framework completely own their tooling alone tells me substantial work was done. Without even critiquing layout, Acer didn't even so much as give its prospective customers the courtesy of a fuckin' reach-around by soldering memory directly onto its motherboard and left a substantial amount of internal volume on the table. I suspect comparing display maintainability would be a complete joke of an exercise. Basic understanding in laptops and modern electronics...yeah, sure. This practicing hardware EE is far from convinced.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    How easy is it going to be to source a mechanically compatible laptop logicboard and matching LCD to today’s design, at a competitive price, 3 years later from now, if it’s just a repurposed Acer parts without long term commitments? 51nb X210 system planar exists, but it also costs $800.
    - metaphor 5y ago
      Why keep insisting it's Acer's this, that and the other? I'm certainly under no illusion that Framework fab'd every piecepart in its laptop design, but it's logistically of little to no relevance. If Framework controls its interface boundary spec and the market wills it, what's to stop them from contracting with any display manufacturer to produce a functional equivalent, or purchasing someone else's parts for sale in their planned marketplace dedicated to the application? I think Framework has put together something that they believe has the potential to be profitable and I believe has the potential to be sustainable. Nothing---especially with respect to obsolescence of consumer electronics---is without lifecycle risk to both a business and its customers. I choose to put my money where my mouth is now because I believe the problem is nevertheless worth trying to solve and the offering is good enough for my objective usecase. Whether Framework can truly make their long term vision happen in a way that doesn't disillusion the community is obviously yet to be demonstrated. If the idea ultimately fails in the market, then such an outcome is hardly any worse than what I perceive to be an already regressive state of productivity laptops being overshadowed by consumption-centric mobile in at least the past decade, none of which ever focused on maintainability as critical design paradigm. Where I think the Framework meta truly differs is it lays a notebook form factor foundation that openly invites the hacker community to fill in at their leisure. Such a brazen "go fuck yourself" message to every other laptop vendor on the market earns my respect any day of the week. Is it the best of all possible worlds? Probably not and there's surely room for improvement, but unlike most entitled consumers who want the future now for pennies on the dollar, that's not what I'm paying for either. I'm paying to support a sensible start towards something that the marketing and design of big companies intentionally ignore, have interim utility during a period of transitory company growth with hardware features and software (non-)options that I actually want, and hoping the rest of the market follows through with qualifying the movement's worth in the long run.

numpad0 5y ago

Mainboard/logicboard is exactly the same. Left side of the logicboard in the original Acer design is connected via a flex cable, which is where modularity daughterboard goes, which means that that part is custom and probably just a USB-C. The main opening being on topside as opposed to bottom means the enclosure is custom made. So what. Overall it’s not something that we are smoking, it’s basic understanding in laptops and modern electronics.

nrp 5y ago
Apologies, but I don't see it either. The internals of that Acer: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/0/csm_Acer_Swift_3_SF313_Wartung_b86c2e53d0.jpg https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/e/0/csm_... The internals of the Framework Laptop: https://images.prismic.io/frameworkmarketplace/df9863d8-4512-4ae0-8037-b74f596918f9_Blog21010+-+Pre+Order+Waitlist+-+img02.jpg https://images.prismic.io/frameworkmarketplace/df9863d8-4512...
metaphor 5y ago
I fail to see the merits of your argument based on some handwaving interpretation of "exactly the same". Merely speculating that FFC interconnect is "probably just a USB-C" says absolutely nothing of the fact that Acer's system is neither truly modular (because it's fundamentally constrained to specific I/O interface by its own case) nor externally reconfigurable by the user. Nevermind that Framework's design appears to sensibly apply what was intended to be floating interconnect (USB-C male) to a fixed peripheral module interface on both sides, which is a huge value add from a user configuration perspective on the merits of being able to choose what side your charger port is installed on alone. So what about the enclosure being custom made?? Oh I don't know, nevermind completely disrespecting mechanical design considerations and effort applied towards targeted maintainability which have a direct impact on internal layout, user ease-of-self-service considerations that quite frankly the rest of the consumer laptop market clearly hasn't given an ounce of attention. That Framework completely own their tooling alone tells me substantial work was done. Without even critiquing layout, Acer didn't even so much as give its prospective customers the courtesy of a fuckin' reach-around by soldering memory directly onto its motherboard and left a substantial amount of internal volume on the table. I suspect comparing display maintainability would be a complete joke of an exercise. Basic understanding in laptops and modern electronics...yeah, sure. This practicing hardware EE is far from convinced.
- numpad0 5y ago
  How easy is it going to be to source a mechanically compatible laptop logicboard and matching LCD to today’s design, at a competitive price, 3 years later from now, if it’s just a repurposed Acer parts without long term commitments? 51nb X210 system planar exists, but it also costs $800.
  - metaphor 5y ago
    Why keep insisting it's Acer's this, that and the other? I'm certainly under no illusion that Framework fab'd every piecepart in its laptop design, but it's logistically of little to no relevance. If Framework controls its interface boundary spec and the market wills it, what's to stop them from contracting with any display manufacturer to produce a functional equivalent, or purchasing someone else's parts for sale in their planned marketplace dedicated to the application? I think Framework has put together something that they believe has the potential to be profitable and I believe has the potential to be sustainable. Nothing---especially with respect to obsolescence of consumer electronics---is without lifecycle risk to both a business and its customers. I choose to put my money where my mouth is now because I believe the problem is nevertheless worth trying to solve and the offering is good enough for my objective usecase. Whether Framework can truly make their long term vision happen in a way that doesn't disillusion the community is obviously yet to be demonstrated. If the idea ultimately fails in the market, then such an outcome is hardly any worse than what I perceive to be an already regressive state of productivity laptops being overshadowed by consumption-centric mobile in at least the past decade, none of which ever focused on maintainability as critical design paradigm. Where I think the Framework meta truly differs is it lays a notebook form factor foundation that openly invites the hacker community to fill in at their leisure. Such a brazen "go fuck yourself" message to every other laptop vendor on the market earns my respect any day of the week. Is it the best of all possible worlds? Probably not and there's surely room for improvement, but unlike most entitled consumers who want the future now for pennies on the dollar, that's not what I'm paying for either. I'm paying to support a sensible start towards something that the marketing and design of big companies intentionally ignore, have interim utility during a period of transitory company growth with hardware features and software (non-)options that I actually want, and hoping the rest of the market follows through with qualifying the movement's worth in the long run.