3 ms·

So....if you're a single guy, and you start a company and you WANT to have a party place with frat house attitude and exercise your right to the pursuit of happ

So....if you're a single guy, and you start a company and you WANT to have a party place with frat house attitude and exercise your right to the pursuit of happiness in life, I take it that a company founder that is a guy should only hire other single men that share those same values? I don't know, I'm just asking other's opinions here.

username90 5y ago
It is fine as long as your fratboy culture doesn't include nor ignore sexual harassment or sexism. At the end of the day it is your responsibility as an employer to provide a safe and fair work environment for everyone, it is illegal to not do it. Lots of women love partying, they aren't really a problem, the problem is that a some guys harass women at parties and you as an employer will need to take that seriously if partying happens at work.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  I mean, that's why I wrote that should one hire single men only. That way, there won't be any type of sexism or harassment. I am beginning to think that the Islamic way of strictly separating men and women makes sense. Let women work at companies founded by women, and men with men. That way, everyone wins, so it seems to me. I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud here.
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
Employment law is a real thing, and people take it seriously. If you are thinking of hiring people you should probably look into it.
- sativallday 5y ago
  "culture fit"
tetromino_ 5y ago
Here's a man who worked at Blizzard saying that he was repeatedly sexually harassed by his (male) supervisors and HR was useless: https://twitter.com/bkcrusco/status/1418241726792142849 https://twitter.com/bkcrusco/status/1418241726792142849 Frat house culture at a company is universally shitty.
TheCoelacanth 5y ago
If you want a party place with a frat house attitude, you should start a social club, not a company. There is no legal way to run a company like that. Hiring only men is illegal. Creating a hostile work environment for women is illegal.
HelloNurse 5y ago
If your purpose is working rather than debauchery, diversity and equality become practically important as moral guidelines. - If you invite everyone to do X, who's likely to refuse? Are they going to feel excluded or mocked? If you don't care about your second class employees, there are more important issues you don't care about. For example, excluding the gluten intolerant from a homemade cake is different from excluding some Jews from a deliberately pork-only barbecue. - If someone happens to do or say X, could someone consider it a problem? If such people are present, X should be forbidden; if such people aren't represented in the company, usually they should. A line between requiring employees to have a somewhat thick skin and requiring everyone else to be nice needs to be drawn, and everyone should be aware of it. For example, if the "frat house" insults absent customers and competitors with anecdotes of their incompetence, it is likely to be harmless (although a symptom of bad attitude); if jokes are about some ethnic group it's a serious problem because such employees are either successfully avoided, or openly offended by some rotten apples. - If A has some unpleasant interaction with B, do the consequences depend on who A and B are? Why? For example, if the owner's dog is forgiven for biting someone while the intern's dog is against company policy it isn't a good workplace.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  hmmm....I don't see debauchery and working as mutually exclusive as you do. I think it would be ok to take a day once a month or quarter and everyone drink alcohol until the puke, and the rest of the time work hard on reaching goals. I'm not sure what diversity and equality have to do with anything. That would mean that I should also hire stupid and unqualified people to make things equal. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being stupid, some of my best times have been with stupid people. But 50% to 75% of the world is stupid, and most unqualifed, so that would me 95% or more of the company's workforce should be stupid and unqualified, as that is a true reflection of diversity and equality. And, if one is going to be actually diverse and committed to equality, probably 98% of men are sexist, although 97.8% would deny it. So should 98% of males be excluded from the workforce? Or is hiring sexist males promoting diversity and equality? >For example, excluding the gluten intolerant from a homemade cake is different from excluding some Jews from a deliberately pork-only barbecue. That's just your personal opinion. Some gluten intolerant people might be just as offended. >For example, if the "frat house" insults absent customers and competitors with anecdotes of their incompetence, it is likely to be harmless (although a symptom of bad attitude) Yes, I have never worked in a company that has never had insults to customers who don't get it. That's pretty normal and understandable. But it is like a group of good friends, and there's always one person in the group who is an idiot, and everyone talks shit about him even in front of him, but you hang out with him anyways, because he's your idiot. >if jokes are about some ethnic group it's a serious problem because such employees are either successfully avoided, or openly offended by some rotten apples. Yes, that's true. But personally, I don't consider that "frat house" behavior. >For example, if the owner's dog is forgiven for biting someone while the intern's dog is against company policy it isn't a good workplace. Eh, again, this is just your opinion. Some people are allowed perquisites. I mean, I don't mean a dog biting per se, I take it that you said that as a general concept. But in general, everyone in a company is not absolutely equal. But f-ck biting dogs, I'd kill a dog if it bit me hard and probably beat the sh-t out the owner, too - f-ck the job, that is beyond the pale. But that is because I'm a manly man and would not put up with that shit. I know where my lines are and when someone crosses them. Or, if the dog bit me kind of lightly but with evil intent (growling at me before biting), that's when I would manage up and tell the owner that the dog is not coming back, too bad. I've done that before when my boss is clearly in the wrong, and have never once got any pushback for it. And I'd do that no matter who it bit, anyone at all.

username90 5y ago

It is fine as long as your fratboy culture doesn't include nor ignore sexual harassment or sexism. At the end of the day it is your responsibility as an employer to provide a safe and fair work environment for everyone, it is illegal to not do it. Lots of women love partying, they aren't really a problem, the problem is that a some guys harass women at parties and you as an employer will need to take that seriously if partying happens at work.

France_is_bacon 5y ago
I mean, that's why I wrote that should one hire single men only. That way, there won't be any type of sexism or harassment. I am beginning to think that the Islamic way of strictly separating men and women makes sense. Let women work at companies founded by women, and men with men. That way, everyone wins, so it seems to me. I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud here.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

Employment law is a real thing, and people take it seriously. If you are thinking of hiring people you should probably look into it.

sativallday 5y ago
"culture fit"

tetromino_ 5y ago

Here's a man who worked at Blizzard saying that he was repeatedly sexually harassed by his (male) supervisors and HR was useless: https://twitter.com/bkcrusco/status/1418241726792142849 https://twitter.com/bkcrusco/status/1418241726792142849 Frat house culture at a company is universally shitty.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago

If you want a party place with a frat house attitude, you should start a social club, not a company. There is no legal way to run a company like that. Hiring only men is illegal. Creating a hostile work environment for women is illegal.

HelloNurse 5y ago

If your purpose is working rather than debauchery, diversity and equality become practically important as moral guidelines. - If you invite everyone to do X, who's likely to refuse? Are they going to feel excluded or mocked? If you don't care about your second class employees, there are more important issues you don't care about. For example, excluding the gluten intolerant from a homemade cake is different from excluding some Jews from a deliberately pork-only barbecue. - If someone happens to do or say X, could someone consider it a problem? If such people are present, X should be forbidden; if such people aren't represented in the company, usually they should. A line between requiring employees to have a somewhat thick skin and requiring everyone else to be nice needs to be drawn, and everyone should be aware of it. For example, if the "frat house" insults absent customers and competitors with anecdotes of their incompetence, it is likely to be harmless (although a symptom of bad attitude); if jokes are about some ethnic group it's a serious problem because such employees are either successfully avoided, or openly offended by some rotten apples. - If A has some unpleasant interaction with B, do the consequences depend on who A and B are? Why? For example, if the owner's dog is forgiven for biting someone while the intern's dog is against company policy it isn't a good workplace.

France_is_bacon 5y ago
hmmm....I don't see debauchery and working as mutually exclusive as you do. I think it would be ok to take a day once a month or quarter and everyone drink alcohol until the puke, and the rest of the time work hard on reaching goals. I'm not sure what diversity and equality have to do with anything. That would mean that I should also hire stupid and unqualified people to make things equal. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being stupid, some of my best times have been with stupid people. But 50% to 75% of the world is stupid, and most unqualifed, so that would me 95% or more of the company's workforce should be stupid and unqualified, as that is a true reflection of diversity and equality. And, if one is going to be actually diverse and committed to equality, probably 98% of men are sexist, although 97.8% would deny it. So should 98% of males be excluded from the workforce? Or is hiring sexist males promoting diversity and equality? >For example, excluding the gluten intolerant from a homemade cake is different from excluding some Jews from a deliberately pork-only barbecue. That's just your personal opinion. Some gluten intolerant people might be just as offended. >For example, if the "frat house" insults absent customers and competitors with anecdotes of their incompetence, it is likely to be harmless (although a symptom of bad attitude) Yes, I have never worked in a company that has never had insults to customers who don't get it. That's pretty normal and understandable. But it is like a group of good friends, and there's always one person in the group who is an idiot, and everyone talks shit about him even in front of him, but you hang out with him anyways, because he's your idiot. >if jokes are about some ethnic group it's a serious problem because such employees are either successfully avoided, or openly offended by some rotten apples. Yes, that's true. But personally, I don't consider that "frat house" behavior. >For example, if the owner's dog is forgiven for biting someone while the intern's dog is against company policy it isn't a good workplace. Eh, again, this is just your opinion. Some people are allowed perquisites. I mean, I don't mean a dog biting per se, I take it that you said that as a general concept. But in general, everyone in a company is not absolutely equal. But f-ck biting dogs, I'd kill a dog if it bit me hard and probably beat the sh-t out the owner, too - f-ck the job, that is beyond the pale. But that is because I'm a manly man and would not put up with that shit. I know where my lines are and when someone crosses them. Or, if the dog bit me kind of lightly but with evil intent (growling at me before biting), that's when I would manage up and tell the owner that the dog is not coming back, too bad. I've done that before when my boss is clearly in the wrong, and have never once got any pushback for it. And I'd do that no matter who it bit, anyone at all.