5 ms·

I'm guessing you haven't worked on many laptops. They aren't meant to be repaired easily in many cases. Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks

I'm guessing you haven't worked on many laptops. They aren't meant to be repaired easily in many cases. Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks. One is on the bottom side of the motherboard that requires 16 screws be removed and a pry tool to get the bottom case off. The second stick is under the keyboard that requires multiple levels of plastic pieces to be pried off and disconnecting the keyboard cable which can barely be reached. Want to swap the battery? That's 16 screws and enough force to break the adhesion that you are bending the case. Plus the system will complain about the battery if you buy it from the wrong vendor. I like open source. I CARE that I have to trash a thousand dollar laptop because I can't source a replacement keyboard when the "S" popped off. All examples I gave are real life examples which I've encountered.

koyote 5y ago
So this would put the Framework laptop into the same category as a Thinkpad? My old (8 years) Thinkpad has had: a new battery, a new keyboard (orange juice!), a new screen (upgrade!), new RAM, new HDD and a new charging plug. All of the above were very simple with just a couple of screws to get the back cover off. No adhesive or force needed. Even the screen simply clipped off. The manual also comes with instructions on how to dismantle the laptop for repairs. I sourced the OEM parts from eBay. The only thing I was not able to change was the Wifi card. Apparently it's hard-locked to a specific model in the bios firmware, which I find a bit odd.
- nrp 5y ago
  It actually would put us in a similar category to Thinkpads from the 2000's and early 2010's, but with modern hardware, a thin and light form factor, an upgradeable mainboard, and customizable ports with Expansion Cards!
  - emacsen 5y ago
    I've noticed that you said you're here to answer all questions, but then you've been selectively not answering a lot of questions, like mine, and others who ask pointed, specific questions rather than mostly fluff. I buy lots of "gadgets"- a Pinephone, LibreM phone, a PiTop, 2 MNT Reform laptops, several OLPC XO-1 laptops- and that's just my current collection (rather than my older collection of even more obscure hardware of the past), but you're not offering much in terms of either being interesting from a social good perspective, nor from a purely practical perspective ala my Dell XPS13 and System 76 Lemur. I wish you luck, but based just on your HN interactions, you're occupying a market niche that doesn't really interest me- that of people who care a little bit about self-actualization and repair, but not a lot.
    - Frameworkscr 5y ago
      Perhaps because the long term prqfmatism js that they build a viable business first. Thr problem with oss is its fanatics. (not associated, fake username)
  - koyote 5y ago
    Fair point, my newer (late 2010s) Thinkpad has soldered RAM which is a step in the wrong direction, so this is definitely an interesting product.
    - vbernat 5y ago
      LPDDR4 is always soldered. There are Thinkpad with DDR4 if you prefer. They are usually heavier, thicker and/or more expensive (pick two). This includes the X1 Extreme Gen2 or the T14.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    I just love hearing customizable ports. I was starting to think we (the tinkerers) lost war.
numpad0 5y ago
> Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks. No. Single channel configuration is slower, unnoticeably on laptops, that’s it. > One is on the bottom side of the motherboard that requires 16 screws be removed and a pry tool to get the bottom case off. Wrong choice of laptop brand. > The second stick is under the keyboard that requires multiple levels of plastic pieces to be pried off and disconnecting the keyboard cable which can barely be reached. Want to swap the battery? That's 16 screws and enough force to break the adhesion that you are bending the case. Plus the system will complain about the battery Again, wrong choice of laptop brand. Panasonic? Theirs are good as long as you only repair and don’t fiddle with it.
ohthehugemanate 5y ago
sure, but the examples he gave are all designed to be easy to service AFAIK. I only have personal experience with a Pinebook, but it is fantastic. Just one bottom panel for most access, and one keyboard to remove for the rest. It is extremely hacker friendly. But it's not a powerhouse CPU like this. A rock64 is no competition for a current generation Intel I5/7 AFAIK.
fmx 5y ago
> I can't source a replacement keyboard when the "S" popped off. > All examples I gave are real life examples which I've encountered. Real life for me, too. The S key on my laptop no longer works. I took apart the keyboard to clean it one day, put everything back together, it all worked, except one key - S. Is there something about that specific key or is this just a weird coincidence?

koyote 5y ago

So this would put the Framework laptop into the same category as a Thinkpad? My old (8 years) Thinkpad has had: a new battery, a new keyboard (orange juice!), a new screen (upgrade!), new RAM, new HDD and a new charging plug. All of the above were very simple with just a couple of screws to get the back cover off. No adhesive or force needed. Even the screen simply clipped off. The manual also comes with instructions on how to dismantle the laptop for repairs. I sourced the OEM parts from eBay. The only thing I was not able to change was the Wifi card. Apparently it's hard-locked to a specific model in the bios firmware, which I find a bit odd.

nrp 5y ago
It actually would put us in a similar category to Thinkpads from the 2000's and early 2010's, but with modern hardware, a thin and light form factor, an upgradeable mainboard, and customizable ports with Expansion Cards!
- emacsen 5y ago
  I've noticed that you said you're here to answer all questions, but then you've been selectively not answering a lot of questions, like mine, and others who ask pointed, specific questions rather than mostly fluff. I buy lots of "gadgets"- a Pinephone, LibreM phone, a PiTop, 2 MNT Reform laptops, several OLPC XO-1 laptops- and that's just my current collection (rather than my older collection of even more obscure hardware of the past), but you're not offering much in terms of either being interesting from a social good perspective, nor from a purely practical perspective ala my Dell XPS13 and System 76 Lemur. I wish you luck, but based just on your HN interactions, you're occupying a market niche that doesn't really interest me- that of people who care a little bit about self-actualization and repair, but not a lot.
  - Frameworkscr 5y ago
    Perhaps because the long term prqfmatism js that they build a viable business first. Thr problem with oss is its fanatics. (not associated, fake username)
- koyote 5y ago
  Fair point, my newer (late 2010s) Thinkpad has soldered RAM which is a step in the wrong direction, so this is definitely an interesting product.
  - vbernat 5y ago
    LPDDR4 is always soldered. There are Thinkpad with DDR4 if you prefer. They are usually heavier, thicker and/or more expensive (pick two). This includes the X1 Extreme Gen2 or the T14.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  I just love hearing customizable ports. I was starting to think we (the tinkerers) lost war.

numpad0 5y ago

> Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks. No. Single channel configuration is slower, unnoticeably on laptops, that’s it. > One is on the bottom side of the motherboard that requires 16 screws be removed and a pry tool to get the bottom case off. Wrong choice of laptop brand. > The second stick is under the keyboard that requires multiple levels of plastic pieces to be pried off and disconnecting the keyboard cable which can barely be reached. Want to swap the battery? That's 16 screws and enough force to break the adhesion that you are bending the case. Plus the system will complain about the battery Again, wrong choice of laptop brand. Panasonic? Theirs are good as long as you only repair and don’t fiddle with it.

ohthehugemanate 5y ago

sure, but the examples he gave are all designed to be easy to service AFAIK. I only have personal experience with a Pinebook, but it is fantastic. Just one bottom panel for most access, and one keyboard to remove for the rest. It is extremely hacker friendly. But it's not a powerhouse CPU like this. A rock64 is no competition for a current generation Intel I5/7 AFAIK.

fmx 5y ago

> I can't source a replacement keyboard when the "S" popped off. > All examples I gave are real life examples which I've encountered. Real life for me, too. The S key on my laptop no longer works. I took apart the keyboard to clean it one day, put everything back together, it all worked, except one key - S. Is there something about that specific key or is this just a weird coincidence?