4 ms·

From the web site, the selling point seems to be around this being a "right to repair" laptop. What's a bit unclear to me is that it seems the Framework Laptop

From the web site, the selling point seems to be around this being a "right to repair" laptop. What's a bit unclear to me is that it seems the Framework Laptop is not be under an Open Source license, unlike the Pinebook Pro, the Librem 14 or the MNT Reform- the MNT being the most "user serviceable" as well as most repairable. Is your laptop fully open source, or if not, what makes it special or different from these other products?

solarengineer 5y ago
For me, "open source" with respect to hardware would imply getting the PCB layouts and other such info that would enable me to modify the electronics and/or produce my own - like a software "fork". The "right to repair" tells me that I would be able to get replacement parts from 3rd party suppliers. Once upon a time, Television units also came with the circuit diagrams that helped third-party repair shops troubleshoot and fix TV issues. I am not sure if such circuit diagrams would help with the kind of wave-soldered multi-layered circuit boards that we have, but it'd be nice to have, I suppose.
- emacsen 5y ago
  That's a good distinction to draw, and certainly clarifies things in some ways. The line between the two is somewhat blurry. Back in the day you're talking about, components were often discreet enough that they could be replaced. Today even something as simple as a capacitor is often difficult to replace on a modern circuit board due to a variety of factors. Certainly the large companies (Apple in particular) creates legal barriers to buying chips and other components. I think the distinction between availability and open source will be an interesting one to see how it plays out when hardware is involved.
matt_heimer 5y ago
I'm guessing you haven't worked on many laptops. They aren't meant to be repaired easily in many cases. Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks. One is on the bottom side of the motherboard that requires 16 screws be removed and a pry tool to get the bottom case off. The second stick is under the keyboard that requires multiple levels of plastic pieces to be pried off and disconnecting the keyboard cable which can barely be reached. Want to swap the battery? That's 16 screws and enough force to break the adhesion that you are bending the case. Plus the system will complain about the battery if you buy it from the wrong vendor. I like open source. I CARE that I have to trash a thousand dollar laptop because I can't source a replacement keyboard when the "S" popped off. All examples I gave are real life examples which I've encountered.
- koyote 5y ago
  So this would put the Framework laptop into the same category as a Thinkpad? My old (8 years) Thinkpad has had: a new battery, a new keyboard (orange juice!), a new screen (upgrade!), new RAM, new HDD and a new charging plug. All of the above were very simple with just a couple of screws to get the back cover off. No adhesive or force needed. Even the screen simply clipped off. The manual also comes with instructions on how to dismantle the laptop for repairs. I sourced the OEM parts from eBay. The only thing I was not able to change was the Wifi card. Apparently it's hard-locked to a specific model in the bios firmware, which I find a bit odd.
  - nrp 5y ago
    It actually would put us in a similar category to Thinkpads from the 2000's and early 2010's, but with modern hardware, a thin and light form factor, an upgradeable mainboard, and customizable ports with Expansion Cards!
    - emacsen 5y ago
      I've noticed that you said you're here to answer all questions, but then you've been selectively not answering a lot of questions, like mine, and others who ask pointed, specific questions rather than mostly fluff. I buy lots of "gadgets"- a Pinephone, LibreM phone, a PiTop, 2 MNT Reform laptops, several OLPC XO-1 laptops- and that's just my current collection (rather than my older collection of even more obscure hardware of the past), but you're not offering much in terms of either being interesting from a social good perspective, nor from a purely practical perspective ala my Dell XPS13 and System 76 Lemur. I wish you luck, but based just on your HN interactions, you're occupying a market niche that doesn't really interest me- that of people who care a little bit about self-actualization and repair, but not a lot.
      - Frameworkscr 5y ago
        Perhaps because the long term prqfmatism js that they build a viable business first. Thr problem with oss is its fanatics. (not associated, fake username)

solarengineer 5y ago

For me, "open source" with respect to hardware would imply getting the PCB layouts and other such info that would enable me to modify the electronics and/or produce my own - like a software "fork". The "right to repair" tells me that I would be able to get replacement parts from 3rd party suppliers. Once upon a time, Television units also came with the circuit diagrams that helped third-party repair shops troubleshoot and fix TV issues. I am not sure if such circuit diagrams would help with the kind of wave-soldered multi-layered circuit boards that we have, but it'd be nice to have, I suppose.

emacsen 5y ago
That's a good distinction to draw, and certainly clarifies things in some ways. The line between the two is somewhat blurry. Back in the day you're talking about, components were often discreet enough that they could be replaced. Today even something as simple as a capacitor is often difficult to replace on a modern circuit board due to a variety of factors. Certainly the large companies (Apple in particular) creates legal barriers to buying chips and other components. I think the distinction between availability and open source will be an interesting one to see how it plays out when hardware is involved.

matt_heimer 5y ago

I'm guessing you haven't worked on many laptops. They aren't meant to be repaired easily in many cases. Want to upgrade the RAM, you need to upgrade both sticks. One is on the bottom side of the motherboard that requires 16 screws be removed and a pry tool to get the bottom case off. The second stick is under the keyboard that requires multiple levels of plastic pieces to be pried off and disconnecting the keyboard cable which can barely be reached. Want to swap the battery? That's 16 screws and enough force to break the adhesion that you are bending the case. Plus the system will complain about the battery if you buy it from the wrong vendor. I like open source. I CARE that I have to trash a thousand dollar laptop because I can't source a replacement keyboard when the "S" popped off. All examples I gave are real life examples which I've encountered.

koyote 5y ago
So this would put the Framework laptop into the same category as a Thinkpad? My old (8 years) Thinkpad has had: a new battery, a new keyboard (orange juice!), a new screen (upgrade!), new RAM, new HDD and a new charging plug. All of the above were very simple with just a couple of screws to get the back cover off. No adhesive or force needed. Even the screen simply clipped off. The manual also comes with instructions on how to dismantle the laptop for repairs. I sourced the OEM parts from eBay. The only thing I was not able to change was the Wifi card. Apparently it's hard-locked to a specific model in the bios firmware, which I find a bit odd.
- nrp 5y ago
  It actually would put us in a similar category to Thinkpads from the 2000's and early 2010's, but with modern hardware, a thin and light form factor, an upgradeable mainboard, and customizable ports with Expansion Cards!
  - emacsen 5y ago
    I've noticed that you said you're here to answer all questions, but then you've been selectively not answering a lot of questions, like mine, and others who ask pointed, specific questions rather than mostly fluff. I buy lots of "gadgets"- a Pinephone, LibreM phone, a PiTop, 2 MNT Reform laptops, several OLPC XO-1 laptops- and that's just my current collection (rather than my older collection of even more obscure hardware of the past), but you're not offering much in terms of either being interesting from a social good perspective, nor from a purely practical perspective ala my Dell XPS13 and System 76 Lemur. I wish you luck, but based just on your HN interactions, you're occupying a market niche that doesn't really interest me- that of people who care a little bit about self-actualization and repair, but not a lot.
    - Frameworkscr 5y ago
      Perhaps because the long term prqfmatism js that they build a viable business first. Thr problem with oss is its fanatics. (not associated, fake username)