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If apple allowed me to install a different store or easily side load you wouldn’t be negatively impacted

user-the-name 5y ago
That is just not true, though. If Apple allowed different stores, then software would migrate to those different stores for various reasons, but probably because they had less restrictions. That would force you to install those less secure stores to use that software, and you would give up the security you gain from Apple taking a hard line on many kinds of bad behaviour on their own store.
- idle_zealot 5y ago
  > If Apple allowed different stores, then software would migrate to those different stores… That would force you to install those less secure stores to use that software… I think you’re underestimating the power of defaults. App developers know that the vast majority of users will not install an alternative app store, even if the platform allows them to. For proof, see the Android app ecosystem. There has been no migration from Google’s Play Store. There isn’t even a hint of store fragmentation. What you see is: 1) some OEMs run their own stores, which mostly rehost apps from Google’s store. These stores are not meant to be installed by arbitrary Android devices, so there is no chance that a user might feel compelled to install the store on their device. 2) F-Droid exists to host FOSS apps, some of which violate some asinine Google policy and as such are exclusive, but most of which are also available on the Play Store. Basically, we have strong real-world evidence that allowing sideloading does not create app store fragmentation. If you want to argue against sideloading from a security standpoint, you’d be better served with the “sideloading allows an abusive spouse to install a keylogger/tracker on their partner’s phone” narrative.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  But that software is clearly stuff you don't want and aren't interested in since it breaks Apple's restrictions so what's the problem? Just learn to live without it just like you've learned to live without emulators, IDEs, etc. in the App Store already. Users that want the choice can choose. Devs that want the choice can choose. You can stay in your walled garden. And considering the uptake of alternate app stores on Android this seems like FUD to me.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Whether software offers something I want and whether software does shady things behind the scenes are often completely separate things. If it were allowed, I am sure a lot of the apps I use today would do shadier things. But it's not allowed, so they can't. If they had the option of going to a less restrictive store, they probably would, and they would do things I am not happy with there. That would be a loss for me.

That is just not true, though. If Apple allowed different stores, then software would migrate to those different stores for various reasons, but probably because they had less restrictions. That would force you to install those less secure stores to use that software, and you would give up the security you gain from Apple taking a hard line on many kinds of bad behaviour on their own store.

idle_zealot 5y ago
> If Apple allowed different stores, then software would migrate to those different stores… That would force you to install those less secure stores to use that software… I think you’re underestimating the power of defaults. App developers know that the vast majority of users will not install an alternative app store, even if the platform allows them to. For proof, see the Android app ecosystem. There has been no migration from Google’s Play Store. There isn’t even a hint of store fragmentation. What you see is: 1) some OEMs run their own stores, which mostly rehost apps from Google’s store. These stores are not meant to be installed by arbitrary Android devices, so there is no chance that a user might feel compelled to install the store on their device. 2) F-Droid exists to host FOSS apps, some of which violate some asinine Google policy and as such are exclusive, but most of which are also available on the Play Store. Basically, we have strong real-world evidence that allowing sideloading does not create app store fragmentation. If you want to argue against sideloading from a security standpoint, you’d be better served with the “sideloading allows an abusive spouse to install a keylogger/tracker on their partner’s phone” narrative.
salamandersauce 5y ago
But that software is clearly stuff you don't want and aren't interested in since it breaks Apple's restrictions so what's the problem? Just learn to live without it just like you've learned to live without emulators, IDEs, etc. in the App Store already. Users that want the choice can choose. Devs that want the choice can choose. You can stay in your walled garden. And considering the uptake of alternate app stores on Android this seems like FUD to me.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Whether software offers something I want and whether software does shady things behind the scenes are often completely separate things. If it were allowed, I am sure a lot of the apps I use today would do shadier things. But it's not allowed, so they can't. If they had the option of going to a less restrictive store, they probably would, and they would do things I am not happy with there. That would be a loss for me.