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Why is there no market for properly secure smart phones? I would have thought the market would be huge.

by worik 5y ago

dylan604 5y ago
Is this a problem solely on smart phone security? Let's say the data being collected by the app someone is using is on a hypothetically secure phone. Isn't the real breach from the apps collecting more data than necessary to provide the functionality the app provides, and then selling that data to anyone with the right amount of cash? If the app is free so the selling of the data is the number one source of income, then as "enlightened" technerds we shouldn't be too surprised this can happen. However, it's not illegal. Is it the selling of user data collected by your service the thing that needs to be made illegal? How would that even work?
kube-system 5y ago
Because the phone isn't the problem, they are relatively secure. But when you install applications on your phone which mishandle your data or even sell it -- it doesn't matter how secure your phone is. The problem is the business culture and legal environment of software development. It's profitable and often legal to abuse data.
- dylan604 5y ago
  A secure phone or more importantly a secure phone OS would not allow an app to collect information like this. The exact geo-location is not something an app like this needs. A "find someone with in 10 kms" is probably good enough, but "allow me to be found within less than a meter" is just waiting for abuse. If it is a 911/999 app, then sure, let them have my exact location. However, the center of the "within 10 km" needs to be significantly offset from my position, otherwise, it's kinda pointless.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    That’s just a tiny example of the data that can be abused. In this instance, the existence of a profile at all is abusable data, and there’s not much of a way around that other than being able to trust the application.
  - fragileone 5y ago
    Android 12 will allow you to give apps approximate rather than precise location.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
There is no such thing as a "properly secure smart phone" because of how people define properly. Also, so many "secure" phones are only secure because NSO and Friends ignore them - if they start paying attention, they'd burst from a thousand bugs.
techrat 5y ago
Wouldn't matter. Grindr requires GPS. On a 'properly secure' smartphone, you enable location access to use Grindr... or you don't use Grindr. The user remains the insecure link in the chain here regardless of how 'properly secure' the smartphone is.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  There are alternatives. Grid-snapping GPS locations are the way other dating apps happen to do this kind of thing (tracking only to the nearest 1KM, for example, or in dense cities maybe 500M). Two permissions like "GPS (Nearby)" and "GPS (Exact)" could do this at the OS level rather than relying on applications to do the right thing. Navigation apps likely need very fine resolution but dating apps, shopping apps, browsers, etc. could snap to a predefined intersection point on a grid. The OS could even allow the decision to be in the hands of the device owner - a simple dialogue when prompted for GPS permission to pick one of Exact, Nearby, Deny could handle it.

Why is there no market for properly secure smart phones? I would have thought the market would be huge.

by worik 5y ago

Why is there no market for properly secure smart phones? I would have thought the market would be huge.

Is this a problem solely on smart phone security? Let's say the data being collected by the app someone is using is on a hypothetically secure phone. Isn't the real breach from the apps collecting more data than necessary to provide the functionality the app provides, and then selling that data to anyone with the right amount of cash? If the app is free so the selling of the data is the number one source of income, then as "enlightened" technerds we shouldn't be too surprised this can happen. However, it's not illegal. Is it the selling of user data collected by your service the thing that needs to be made illegal? How would that even work?

kube-system 5y ago

Because the phone isn't the problem, they are relatively secure. But when you install applications on your phone which mishandle your data or even sell it -- it doesn't matter how secure your phone is. The problem is the business culture and legal environment of software development. It's profitable and often legal to abuse data.

dylan604 5y ago
A secure phone or more importantly a secure phone OS would not allow an app to collect information like this. The exact geo-location is not something an app like this needs. A "find someone with in 10 kms" is probably good enough, but "allow me to be found within less than a meter" is just waiting for abuse. If it is a 911/999 app, then sure, let them have my exact location. However, the center of the "within 10 km" needs to be significantly offset from my position, otherwise, it's kinda pointless.
- kube-system 5y ago
  That’s just a tiny example of the data that can be abused. In this instance, the existence of a profile at all is abusable data, and there’s not much of a way around that other than being able to trust the application.
- fragileone 5y ago
  Android 12 will allow you to give apps approximate rather than precise location.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

There is no such thing as a "properly secure smart phone" because of how people define properly. Also, so many "secure" phones are only secure because NSO and Friends ignore them - if they start paying attention, they'd burst from a thousand bugs.

techrat 5y ago

Wouldn't matter. Grindr requires GPS. On a 'properly secure' smartphone, you enable location access to use Grindr... or you don't use Grindr. The user remains the insecure link in the chain here regardless of how 'properly secure' the smartphone is.

BeefWellington 5y ago
There are alternatives. Grid-snapping GPS locations are the way other dating apps happen to do this kind of thing (tracking only to the nearest 1KM, for example, or in dense cities maybe 500M). Two permissions like "GPS (Nearby)" and "GPS (Exact)" could do this at the OS level rather than relying on applications to do the right thing. Navigation apps likely need very fine resolution but dating apps, shopping apps, browsers, etc. could snap to a predefined intersection point on a grid. The OS could even allow the decision to be in the hands of the device owner - a simple dialogue when prompted for GPS permission to pick one of Exact, Nearby, Deny could handle it.