6 ms·

> If this controversial change frustrates you, as well as thousands of other insiders, make sure to send your feedback to Microsoft. Or, just don't use windows

> If this controversial change frustrates you, as well as thousands of other insiders, make sure to send your feedback to Microsoft. Or, just don't use windows 11. I certainly won't. I'm only using win10 as it is because they don't care if you use an unauthorized copy for free. At this point my camel's back is a needle away from switching to linux/mac.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
If you like choice I can really recommend KDE. It's got much more configurability than Windows or Mac. You'll be no longer stuck with what a mega corporation decides is best for you. I run it on top of FreeBSD myself. Gnome is nice too but suffers from the same lack of configurability. It's too opinionated like Mac. You can make it more flexible but you'll end up having a lot of plugins that end up being hard to maintain across version updates. Every time I'm looking for a function in Gnome and Google it I find an old thread discussing how it used to have it but the Devs removed it because they didn't agree with it or deem it necessary. In contrast with that the idea of "Options everywhere!" seems to still be the KDE philosophy so if you like choice this is the place to go IMO :)
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Gnome is nice too but suffers from the same lack of configurability. It's too opinionated like Mac. You can make it more flexible but you'll end up having a lot of plugins that end up being hard to maintain across version updates. Every time I'm looking for a function in Gnome and Google it I find an old thread discussing how it used to have it but the Devs removed it because they didn't agree with it or deem it necessary. I'm getting tried of "opinionated" technologies. Everyone has opinions, but it's a dick move to force yours on others like that's a good thing.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    I think it's so common now because Apple has become so popular and trendsetting. Apple have always been very opinionated but they've steered the industry along with them. Everyone follows them in some way, like when vista basically copied Aqua and when they moved to flat design everyone followed. Opinionated software works for simple apps but not for whole OSes IMO. I'm glad there's still systems around that offer more choices but they are becoming more fringey now. The same if you want an OS without any kind of telemetry. Neither Microsoft nor Apple are saints there.
    - cybwraith 5y ago
      Ironically, OSX lets you move the dock to left/right of the screen
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        True but not gladly :) It reverts to a much simpler view (at least it did last time I tried it)
ChrisLTD 5y ago
I'm not sure this change is reason enough to give up possibly decades of experience with Windows. Switching platforms can slow your work down for months if you have a unique and optimized workflow.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I think that's what parent is saying: just stay on Windows 10 and you won't have to deal with switching to anything, including the flaming garbage heap of Windows 11.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
Mac wont be a choice for much longer, the writing on the wall is obvious that MacOS is on it's way to being deprecated. Within 10 years the desktop Mac experience will be closer to iPadOS than MacOS of today.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > writing on the wall is obvious that MacOS is on it's way to being deprecated I must have my back turned. Where is this wall? Apple seems to be investing quite heavily into its Mac line-up, including by differentiating it from iOS devices.
  - ChrisLTD 5y ago
    I think the biggest danger for the developer crowd is that Apple locks down MacOS so much that our tools and workflows become more limited and difficult to use. I'm not saying that will happen, but it seems more possible today than it did five years ago.
- burself 5y ago
  Aren't they doing the complete opposite by, for example, not adding touchscreen to Macs and handicapping iPadOS on purpose so that it can't be used for real work despite having an M1? They benefit way more from selling multiple devices for different purposes than they would from selling "THE" ultimate device.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Great, it means more System 9 and less UNIX.
onychomys 5y ago
If your employer gives you a Windows laptop with a company image on it like mine does, it eventually won't matter how much you protest against it.
DashAnimal 5y ago
Every year or so I reevaluate whether Linux can run without dual boot on my desktop and the cycle is the same - something that was previously a blocker is no longer a blocker, but along the way I discover some other issue. It used to be gaming, GPU video decoding on Firefox, etc. Now it is the fact that most music production software uses iLok - in particular I've been using Neural DSP VSTs to play and record guitar. If there is a workaround for that I'm onboard... At least until I discover the next blocker.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  I was using Linux for about 5 years, with my MPK Mini II through LMMS without any hassle (my needs are basic). I moved back to Windows a week ago and decided to go all-in on using the software they offered with the instrument. The amount of registering, license agreeing, and license managing (including iLok) I had to go through was absolutely sickening. I knew it was going to bad, I've heard plenty of complaints, but I didn't think it would be nearly that crazy. I really wish the digital audio industry would change on the front, it's worse than any other type of software I've used personally. Until then, I'm just going to stick with analog instruments.
- craftinator 5y ago
  Currently the only reason I use windows at all is because Fusion 360 only runs on windows. As soon as I find a seamless workaround, I can finally dump it completely. Pretty excited about that!
InitialLastName 5y ago
Just as soon as the CAD tools I've put a decade into learning and building tools for work on something other than Windows, I'll be right with you.
- ddingus 5y ago
  That is hard. I have two decades plus starting in 89. Windows is a lock. Fir a time, I ran NX on both Mac OS and Linux. Linux is a tough setup. Mac OS was easier. Both are missing features related to fonts. Other than that, it reminded me of running high end SDRC on IRIX. :D Support is either gone or on the serious fade today. Too much integration and momentum.
Jare 5y ago
If there's one thing that all the bad news coming about Windows are not capable of, is me switching to mac. I've used it daily for work for years, and I still hate everything about it except the shell (even that, at times...) I'd be happy with Linux but I never had the time/inclination to ensure my games work there. Win11's taskbar might just get me to find out.
JohnFen 5y ago
I'm with you, in concept. I stopped using Windows on any of my personal machines back around the Win 98 days. Unfortunately, my employer makes me use it at work, so I can't really avoid it.
- ddingus 5y ago
  Win 98 was the last Windows I paid for. If they bork it up, it costs other people money, because it costs me time. I run it mostly standard, bog standard and got really good at the basics. Best overall path. Maybe they want to force that on everyone? Whittle it down to the nubs and there is less support overall. I am happy to do the work, let someone else buy Windows.
selfhoster11 5y ago
Lots of companies will refuse to let you choose an environment, or only offer a Mac. Not everyone can switch jobs over an OS, so those people are stuck.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Or, just don't use windows 11. I certainly won't. With their support schedule, you'll probably have to sooner than you think, if you need to keep using Windows.
- eertami 5y ago
  >Microsoft is ending support for Windows 10 on October 14th, 2025 I'm optimistic that by 2025 either Microsoft or a third party have developed a way to put the taskbar back at the top. It's apparently possible to use the W10 taskbar in W11 with a registry hack, in the current builds.
  - scruple 5y ago
    There's a registry key that can move the taskbar to the top. I was on the win11 beta for about a week before going back to a clean win10 install. I hope they can smooth out the taskbar issues because that alone is what put me back to win10. It's a beta, of course, but the taskbar is currently very buggy.
- bambax 5y ago
  I'm still on Windows 7 and nothing bad has happened.
christophilus 5y ago
I switched from Windows to Mac and am now very happily running Fedora. Fedora is really nice out of the box, once you get used to the Gnome desktop way of doing things. Now, when I have to use a Windows or OSX machine, I generally find the experience to be subpar. I’d never have expected that. Also, Steam + gaming works surprisingly well. I guess what I’m saying is: give it a shot!
pjmlp 5y ago
Every time Microsoft or Apple introduce something that a vocal group doesn't like, it is going to be the year of Desktop GNU/Linux, and then it is not.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

If you like choice I can really recommend KDE. It's got much more configurability than Windows or Mac. You'll be no longer stuck with what a mega corporation decides is best for you. I run it on top of FreeBSD myself. Gnome is nice too but suffers from the same lack of configurability. It's too opinionated like Mac. You can make it more flexible but you'll end up having a lot of plugins that end up being hard to maintain across version updates. Every time I'm looking for a function in Gnome and Google it I find an old thread discussing how it used to have it but the Devs removed it because they didn't agree with it or deem it necessary. In contrast with that the idea of "Options everywhere!" seems to still be the KDE philosophy so if you like choice this is the place to go IMO :)

tablespoon 5y ago
> Gnome is nice too but suffers from the same lack of configurability. It's too opinionated like Mac. You can make it more flexible but you'll end up having a lot of plugins that end up being hard to maintain across version updates. Every time I'm looking for a function in Gnome and Google it I find an old thread discussing how it used to have it but the Devs removed it because they didn't agree with it or deem it necessary. I'm getting tried of "opinionated" technologies. Everyone has opinions, but it's a dick move to force yours on others like that's a good thing.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  I think it's so common now because Apple has become so popular and trendsetting. Apple have always been very opinionated but they've steered the industry along with them. Everyone follows them in some way, like when vista basically copied Aqua and when they moved to flat design everyone followed. Opinionated software works for simple apps but not for whole OSes IMO. I'm glad there's still systems around that offer more choices but they are becoming more fringey now. The same if you want an OS without any kind of telemetry. Neither Microsoft nor Apple are saints there.
  - cybwraith 5y ago
    Ironically, OSX lets you move the dock to left/right of the screen
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      True but not gladly :) It reverts to a much simpler view (at least it did last time I tried it)

ChrisLTD 5y ago

I'm not sure this change is reason enough to give up possibly decades of experience with Windows. Switching platforms can slow your work down for months if you have a unique and optimized workflow.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I think that's what parent is saying: just stay on Windows 10 and you won't have to deal with switching to anything, including the flaming garbage heap of Windows 11.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

Mac wont be a choice for much longer, the writing on the wall is obvious that MacOS is on it's way to being deprecated. Within 10 years the desktop Mac experience will be closer to iPadOS than MacOS of today.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> writing on the wall is obvious that MacOS is on it's way to being deprecated I must have my back turned. Where is this wall? Apple seems to be investing quite heavily into its Mac line-up, including by differentiating it from iOS devices.
- ChrisLTD 5y ago
  I think the biggest danger for the developer crowd is that Apple locks down MacOS so much that our tools and workflows become more limited and difficult to use. I'm not saying that will happen, but it seems more possible today than it did five years ago.
burself 5y ago
Aren't they doing the complete opposite by, for example, not adding touchscreen to Macs and handicapping iPadOS on purpose so that it can't be used for real work despite having an M1? They benefit way more from selling multiple devices for different purposes than they would from selling "THE" ultimate device.
pjmlp 5y ago
Great, it means more System 9 and less UNIX.

onychomys 5y ago

If your employer gives you a Windows laptop with a company image on it like mine does, it eventually won't matter how much you protest against it.

DashAnimal 5y ago

Every year or so I reevaluate whether Linux can run without dual boot on my desktop and the cycle is the same - something that was previously a blocker is no longer a blocker, but along the way I discover some other issue. It used to be gaming, GPU video decoding on Firefox, etc. Now it is the fact that most music production software uses iLok - in particular I've been using Neural DSP VSTs to play and record guitar. If there is a workaround for that I'm onboard... At least until I discover the next blocker.

kgwxd 5y ago
I was using Linux for about 5 years, with my MPK Mini II through LMMS without any hassle (my needs are basic). I moved back to Windows a week ago and decided to go all-in on using the software they offered with the instrument. The amount of registering, license agreeing, and license managing (including iLok) I had to go through was absolutely sickening. I knew it was going to bad, I've heard plenty of complaints, but I didn't think it would be nearly that crazy. I really wish the digital audio industry would change on the front, it's worse than any other type of software I've used personally. Until then, I'm just going to stick with analog instruments.
craftinator 5y ago
Currently the only reason I use windows at all is because Fusion 360 only runs on windows. As soon as I find a seamless workaround, I can finally dump it completely. Pretty excited about that!

InitialLastName 5y ago

Just as soon as the CAD tools I've put a decade into learning and building tools for work on something other than Windows, I'll be right with you.

ddingus 5y ago
That is hard. I have two decades plus starting in 89. Windows is a lock. Fir a time, I ran NX on both Mac OS and Linux. Linux is a tough setup. Mac OS was easier. Both are missing features related to fonts. Other than that, it reminded me of running high end SDRC on IRIX. :D Support is either gone or on the serious fade today. Too much integration and momentum.

Jare 5y ago

If there's one thing that all the bad news coming about Windows are not capable of, is me switching to mac. I've used it daily for work for years, and I still hate everything about it except the shell (even that, at times...) I'd be happy with Linux but I never had the time/inclination to ensure my games work there. Win11's taskbar might just get me to find out.

JohnFen 5y ago

I'm with you, in concept. I stopped using Windows on any of my personal machines back around the Win 98 days. Unfortunately, my employer makes me use it at work, so I can't really avoid it.

ddingus 5y ago
Win 98 was the last Windows I paid for. If they bork it up, it costs other people money, because it costs me time. I run it mostly standard, bog standard and got really good at the basics. Best overall path. Maybe they want to force that on everyone? Whittle it down to the nubs and there is less support overall. I am happy to do the work, let someone else buy Windows.

selfhoster11 5y ago

Lots of companies will refuse to let you choose an environment, or only offer a Mac. Not everyone can switch jobs over an OS, so those people are stuck.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Or, just don't use windows 11. I certainly won't. With their support schedule, you'll probably have to sooner than you think, if you need to keep using Windows.

eertami 5y ago
>Microsoft is ending support for Windows 10 on October 14th, 2025 I'm optimistic that by 2025 either Microsoft or a third party have developed a way to put the taskbar back at the top. It's apparently possible to use the W10 taskbar in W11 with a registry hack, in the current builds.
- scruple 5y ago
  There's a registry key that can move the taskbar to the top. I was on the win11 beta for about a week before going back to a clean win10 install. I hope they can smooth out the taskbar issues because that alone is what put me back to win10. It's a beta, of course, but the taskbar is currently very buggy.
bambax 5y ago
I'm still on Windows 7 and nothing bad has happened.

christophilus 5y ago

I switched from Windows to Mac and am now very happily running Fedora. Fedora is really nice out of the box, once you get used to the Gnome desktop way of doing things. Now, when I have to use a Windows or OSX machine, I generally find the experience to be subpar. I’d never have expected that. Also, Steam + gaming works surprisingly well. I guess what I’m saying is: give it a shot!

pjmlp 5y ago

Every time Microsoft or Apple introduce something that a vocal group doesn't like, it is going to be the year of Desktop GNU/Linux, and then it is not.