7 ms·

I agree. There was a horrendous incident recently in the UK where an American woman drove the wrong way up a particular road and ran over a teenager. Somehow sh

I agree. There was a horrendous incident recently in the UK where an American woman drove the wrong way up a particular road and ran over a teenager. Somehow she was spirited out of the country and now the US refuse to extradite her.

trasz 5y ago
You’re talking about Anne Sacoolas. There’s more to it: she’s a spook, and she fled on board of US military plane, lying about having diplomatic immunity.
- anonymousDan 5y ago
  Yes - my understanding is she was the wife of a spoon and didn't have diplomatic immunity? I agree perhaps there is more to it, but still it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
  - trasz 5y ago
    She (and US officials I think?) lied that she was a diplomat’s wife and thus had immunity. The fact that she’s herself a spook - and thus didn’t have immunity - was discovered later, during the trial.
    - f38zf5vdt 5y ago
      For non-native English speakers, spook is vernacular for government intelligence agent (spy).
      - microtherion 5y ago
        … or a caucasian, or an Asian, or an Afrian-American, or an Australian, or a heroin addict: https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/a23ap7q https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/a23ap7q Clearly, the parent comment's interpretation is correct in this context. The only other use I've encountered was #3, I believe in James Ellroy novels.
        mdda 5y ago
        FWIW, for the International audience, the (excellent) UK series "Spooks" was renamed "MI-5" - it was all about the domestic intelligence services in the UK, and (IMHO) worth looking for on NetFlix...
    - anonymousDan 5y ago
      I stand corrected, thanks.
  - argonaut 5y ago
    There are conflicting reports on her diplomatic immunity and whether she was still employed as a spy (she was definitely employed by the US govt at the time, and as a spy in the past). So it's not as simple as saying she didn't have it or she lied about it. Looks to me like a complicated legal matter. At least the US State Dept position is that she did have diplomatic immunity.
    - rjsw 5y ago
      And if she was still a spy that should have been declared to the UK.
    - bagacrap 5y ago
      what is the point of diplomatic immunity? surely it's not intended to grant the right to murder/manslaughter
      - MichaelZuo 5y ago
        That’s exactly the point since otherwise there would be more opportunities for false flag attacks on, or by, diplomats overriding a non absolute immunity.
        trasz 5y ago
        That might the point for some third world countries, and the US, which openly protect their criminals (usually war criminals) from justice. With more civilized countries, the idea is that the person accused is still being tried, but in its country court, with the assumption that if they are guilty, they will get sentenced anyways.
- rhino369 5y ago
  She had diplomatic immunity. There is a lot of bad reporting in that case. The US always puts it diplomats back on a plane ASAP after that sort of incident. My buddy in the foreign service ran someone over while on a tour and they did exactly the same thing. Back on the next flight out. It sounds callous, but the person would otherwise become a scapegoat for the US.
  - trasz 5y ago
    Indeed, the US tends to protect its criminals from justice, as long as they work for the government. It’s not callous, though, it’s just bullying. The “scapegoat” argument could make sense in a few countries without proper judicial system, but obviously doesn’t make sense with European countries.
    - rhino369 5y ago
      The "scapegoat" argument makes sense here too. Mrs. Sacoolas was seen as a personification of Trump's foreign policy. People were calling for her head, for an crime that generally doesn't even receive jail time (in the UK or USA). People don't normally get incensed over non-DUI car accidents. People were out for blood because her husband and allegedly she worked for US intelligence agencies. If she was just a tourist who forgot which side of the road she was supposed to drive on the case would just be in the local papers. You can see it in this thread on hacker news. THEY WERE SPOOKS! STRING EM UP. Uh, no, they were working on a joint intelligence mission with the UK. The vast majority of intelligence workers are analysts and support staff not little green men.
      - trasz 5y ago
        No, people wanted blood because she avoided all responsibility by lying about diplomatic immunity and fleeing the country. Nobody would say a thing if she did have a minimum of dignity and didn’t behave like a professional criminal. The only reason for mentioning her being a spook is how she used that fact to escape.
  - gadders 5y ago

trasz 5y ago

You’re talking about Anne Sacoolas. There’s more to it: she’s a spook, and she fled on board of US military plane, lying about having diplomatic immunity.

anonymousDan 5y ago
Yes - my understanding is she was the wife of a spoon and didn't have diplomatic immunity? I agree perhaps there is more to it, but still it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
- trasz 5y ago
  She (and US officials I think?) lied that she was a diplomat’s wife and thus had immunity. The fact that she’s herself a spook - and thus didn’t have immunity - was discovered later, during the trial.
  - f38zf5vdt 5y ago
    For non-native English speakers, spook is vernacular for government intelligence agent (spy).
    - microtherion 5y ago
      … or a caucasian, or an Asian, or an Afrian-American, or an Australian, or a heroin addict: https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/a23ap7q https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/a23ap7q Clearly, the parent comment's interpretation is correct in this context. The only other use I've encountered was #3, I believe in James Ellroy novels.
      - mdda 5y ago
        FWIW, for the International audience, the (excellent) UK series "Spooks" was renamed "MI-5" - it was all about the domestic intelligence services in the UK, and (IMHO) worth looking for on NetFlix...
  - anonymousDan 5y ago
    I stand corrected, thanks.
- argonaut 5y ago
  There are conflicting reports on her diplomatic immunity and whether she was still employed as a spy (she was definitely employed by the US govt at the time, and as a spy in the past). So it's not as simple as saying she didn't have it or she lied about it. Looks to me like a complicated legal matter. At least the US State Dept position is that she did have diplomatic immunity.
  - rjsw 5y ago
    And if she was still a spy that should have been declared to the UK.
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    what is the point of diplomatic immunity? surely it's not intended to grant the right to murder/manslaughter
    - MichaelZuo 5y ago
      That’s exactly the point since otherwise there would be more opportunities for false flag attacks on, or by, diplomats overriding a non absolute immunity.
      - trasz 5y ago
        That might the point for some third world countries, and the US, which openly protect their criminals (usually war criminals) from justice. With more civilized countries, the idea is that the person accused is still being tried, but in its country court, with the assumption that if they are guilty, they will get sentenced anyways.
rhino369 5y ago
She had diplomatic immunity. There is a lot of bad reporting in that case. The US always puts it diplomats back on a plane ASAP after that sort of incident. My buddy in the foreign service ran someone over while on a tour and they did exactly the same thing. Back on the next flight out. It sounds callous, but the person would otherwise become a scapegoat for the US.
- trasz 5y ago
  Indeed, the US tends to protect its criminals from justice, as long as they work for the government. It’s not callous, though, it’s just bullying. The “scapegoat” argument could make sense in a few countries without proper judicial system, but obviously doesn’t make sense with European countries.
  - rhino369 5y ago
    The "scapegoat" argument makes sense here too. Mrs. Sacoolas was seen as a personification of Trump's foreign policy. People were calling for her head, for an crime that generally doesn't even receive jail time (in the UK or USA). People don't normally get incensed over non-DUI car accidents. People were out for blood because her husband and allegedly she worked for US intelligence agencies. If she was just a tourist who forgot which side of the road she was supposed to drive on the case would just be in the local papers. You can see it in this thread on hacker news. THEY WERE SPOOKS! STRING EM UP. Uh, no, they were working on a joint intelligence mission with the UK. The vast majority of intelligence workers are analysts and support staff not little green men.
    - trasz 5y ago
      No, people wanted blood because she avoided all responsibility by lying about diplomatic immunity and fleeing the country. Nobody would say a thing if she did have a minimum of dignity and didn’t behave like a professional criminal. The only reason for mentioning her being a spook is how she used that fact to escape.
- gadders 5y ago