5 ms·

I am sorry to say that you are most likely right. My father is[0] a psychiatrist in big psychiatric hospital in France (1500 beds, only psychiatry, nothing else

by Loic 5y ago

I am sorry to say that you are most likely right. My father is[0] a psychiatrist in big psychiatric hospital in France (1500 beds, only psychiatry, nothing else) and he told me again and again that he was against the legalisation of marijuana because of this. The problem is that once you trigger schizophrenia you need to live with it, all your life... Note that he told me so, even if his work during the last 15 years was mainly with the very poor people or refugees without health insurance, the ones suffering a lot from the drug dealers and all the associated black market, prostitution and abuse against minorities, women and kids. We had lively discussion because I consider that legalizing drugs would reduce violence, gangs, etc. but it is hard to argue against somebody having clear first hand experience with both sides of the problem. [0]: was in fact, he retired 2 weeks ago.

dmos62 5y ago
Same experience with a (art) therapist in a mental hospital (less than 1500 beds). Very persistent in asserting that weed causes some people to end up there. I don't think it's a good argument against legalization. We don't ban alcohol, because there are alcoholics. I think it would be smarter to regulate the recreational drug industry and use its taxes to fund relevant education, research and mental health programmes.
- Weebs 5y ago
  It's unfortunate research was barred for so long (at least in the US), because we could have had a good idea by now what risk factors there are and their warning signs at onset
- Loic 5y ago
  You can drink a bit too much with 18 during a year and nicely recover. With marijuana, you smoke a bit too much during a year and you are good for life. This is why I totally understand the point of view of the therapists having to deal with the long term effects on these unlucky people. Both sides have good arguments, one cannot ignore them, only trade-offs to accept one way or another.
  - NeutronStar 5y ago
    Still better than death due to alcohol.
  - croes 5y ago
    Nice try. A little bit too much? It's about heavy use. Heavy use of marijuana can lead to shizophrenia, heavy use of alcohol can kill you or at least severely damage your brain or liver. Not to mention the number of secondary victims of alcohol through drunk driving or violence. Compare that to marijuana and alcohol is the bigger problem.
    - dmos62 5y ago
      I'll add that alcoholism's social and psychological effects can be extreme. Some cultures have experienced it more than others. A close relative had that since ~30 years of age until death at ~80 years of age. During his twenties he abstained. Then it was social drinking, then it became more frequent, then he started becoming dysfunctional, not being able to perform in his professional life, all the while his mental state degraded, around 50 years of age you could still argue with him, around 60-70 there wasn't anyone to argue with anymore, there was only a craving left. I don't think it's just the alcohol. I presume that it concealed a psychological problem. But, I can't help thinking that if it were some other drug the person in question would have had a higher life quality. Alcohol is very punishing in all ways.
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        Almost any drug would have been better as long as the supply was clean and stable. Even heroin can be used intravenously for decades as long as proper caution is observed, but that tends to become a low priority if availability and thus price fluctuates. If quality fluctuates, death by overdose is a matter of time. The opioid epidemic is no joke, but it took a turn for the worse once doctors stopped prescribing opioids and supplies dried out, making people pay inflated prices and/or switch to fentanyl. At least alcohol is available, so people don’t drink mouthwash.
  - dmos62 5y ago
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Islam bans alcohol, but it also requires praying 5 times a day and usually a lot of going to Mosque with other Muslims and a general belief of unity and being in a common struggle against enemy types. I wonder if all that cultural stuff protects people from common psychological problems which they might otherwise try to stifle with alcohol. I think alcoholism is often a coping mechanism for some other psychological problem. If you just ban alcohol but don't have the culture to help with people's problems, maybe you make things worse. Mental health care is kind of an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and doesn't seem very efficient or effective either.
  - mjbeswick 5y ago
    While religion may fill the spiritual needs that some people seem to have, and on the surface is pretty harmless; it can be extremely harmful to people that have mental health problems. Take someone that suffers from paranoid schizophrenia; telling them God speaks to people and that they should obey him can have dire consequences! I've see this problem first hand, so I'm not just speculating. People throughout history have claimed to be profits; but unless they are a fraud, it's far more likely that the voices they hear auditory hallucinations associated with schizophrenia!
  - fennecfoxy 5y ago
    Religion doesn't have an amazing history when it comes to gay people, along with plenty of other things.
  - dmos62 5y ago
    I agree that there's a lack of understanding for how to deal with the subtle aspects of a human, but I don't think that religion is a good solution. We need lucidity. I believe that most religions had that in the beginning, but centuries passed and clear-sightedness eroded to dogma and ritual. Opium of the people is a heavy handed comment, but there's truth in it. I do think, however, that if you don't take religious discourse at face value, there's a lot to be learned from it.
alisonatwork 5y ago
I am pro legalization because I think people should get to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, but I definitely agree that this aspect of marijuana use is somewhat downplayed by many of its advocates. Anecdotally, I have seen several marijuana-using friends go down the tubes. One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him (because he was worried everyone might be a spy), and several others became extremely unpleasant and irritable when they weren't high on the drug. This is perhaps the minority case and most people can partake relatively safely, but I definitely don't see it as a completely harmless substance.
- chris37879 5y ago
  Yup, I still smoke regularly, but I have noticed that if I smoke a lot (and I do mean a lot), I start having paranoia when I'm not high, which is odd cause I don't have it while high. Once that happened to me and I realized the connection, I've scaled my smoking back a lot and it doesn't happen. My brother, on the other hand, smokes way too much, even when I was living in a legal state smoking a lot, he smokes more than I did, and you're spot on, when he doesn't have any weed, he is a hateful, mean, angry person, I've begged him to stop smoking so much, but of course he won't listen to me.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him" I would bet you anything that this person was using a high-potency grade of cannabis and/or smoking a lot of it. If they just used a little bit of a low-potency strain it's unlikely they would have suffered from paranoia. "several others became extremely unpleasant and irritable when they weren't high on the drug" So, wait, these people became nicer to be around while they were smoking and this is supposed to be a bad thing?
  - alisonatwork 5y ago
    Well, they used to be nicer before they started smoking a lot. Then they developed a newer, more irritable personality, which only lifted when they were high. In my experience the same sort of thing can happen with alcoholics.
dantheman 5y ago
So your father is for imprisoning people, gang violence, and the overall cartel drug system, because a few people will develop schizophrenia -- The question isn't marijuana or no marijuana, it's marijuana vs all the problems with prohibition. Also, there's a fundamental right to self medicate.

by Loic 5y ago

dmos62 5y ago

Same experience with a (art) therapist in a mental hospital (less than 1500 beds). Very persistent in asserting that weed causes some people to end up there. I don't think it's a good argument against legalization. We don't ban alcohol, because there are alcoholics. I think it would be smarter to regulate the recreational drug industry and use its taxes to fund relevant education, research and mental health programmes.

Weebs 5y ago
It's unfortunate research was barred for so long (at least in the US), because we could have had a good idea by now what risk factors there are and their warning signs at onset
Loic 5y ago
You can drink a bit too much with 18 during a year and nicely recover. With marijuana, you smoke a bit too much during a year and you are good for life. This is why I totally understand the point of view of the therapists having to deal with the long term effects on these unlucky people. Both sides have good arguments, one cannot ignore them, only trade-offs to accept one way or another.
- NeutronStar 5y ago
  Still better than death due to alcohol.
- croes 5y ago
  Nice try. A little bit too much? It's about heavy use. Heavy use of marijuana can lead to shizophrenia, heavy use of alcohol can kill you or at least severely damage your brain or liver. Not to mention the number of secondary victims of alcohol through drunk driving or violence. Compare that to marijuana and alcohol is the bigger problem.
  - dmos62 5y ago
    I'll add that alcoholism's social and psychological effects can be extreme. Some cultures have experienced it more than others. A close relative had that since ~30 years of age until death at ~80 years of age. During his twenties he abstained. Then it was social drinking, then it became more frequent, then he started becoming dysfunctional, not being able to perform in his professional life, all the while his mental state degraded, around 50 years of age you could still argue with him, around 60-70 there wasn't anyone to argue with anymore, there was only a craving left. I don't think it's just the alcohol. I presume that it concealed a psychological problem. But, I can't help thinking that if it were some other drug the person in question would have had a higher life quality. Alcohol is very punishing in all ways.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      Almost any drug would have been better as long as the supply was clean and stable. Even heroin can be used intravenously for decades as long as proper caution is observed, but that tends to become a low priority if availability and thus price fluctuates. If quality fluctuates, death by overdose is a matter of time. The opioid epidemic is no joke, but it took a turn for the worse once doctors stopped prescribing opioids and supplies dried out, making people pay inflated prices and/or switch to fentanyl. At least alcohol is available, so people don’t drink mouthwash.
- dmos62 5y ago
exporectomy 5y ago
Islam bans alcohol, but it also requires praying 5 times a day and usually a lot of going to Mosque with other Muslims and a general belief of unity and being in a common struggle against enemy types. I wonder if all that cultural stuff protects people from common psychological problems which they might otherwise try to stifle with alcohol. I think alcoholism is often a coping mechanism for some other psychological problem. If you just ban alcohol but don't have the culture to help with people's problems, maybe you make things worse. Mental health care is kind of an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and doesn't seem very efficient or effective either.
- mjbeswick 5y ago
  While religion may fill the spiritual needs that some people seem to have, and on the surface is pretty harmless; it can be extremely harmful to people that have mental health problems. Take someone that suffers from paranoid schizophrenia; telling them God speaks to people and that they should obey him can have dire consequences! I've see this problem first hand, so I'm not just speculating. People throughout history have claimed to be profits; but unless they are a fraud, it's far more likely that the voices they hear auditory hallucinations associated with schizophrenia!
- fennecfoxy 5y ago
  Religion doesn't have an amazing history when it comes to gay people, along with plenty of other things.
- dmos62 5y ago
  I agree that there's a lack of understanding for how to deal with the subtle aspects of a human, but I don't think that religion is a good solution. We need lucidity. I believe that most religions had that in the beginning, but centuries passed and clear-sightedness eroded to dogma and ritual. Opium of the people is a heavy handed comment, but there's truth in it. I do think, however, that if you don't take religious discourse at face value, there's a lot to be learned from it.

alisonatwork 5y ago

I am pro legalization because I think people should get to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, but I definitely agree that this aspect of marijuana use is somewhat downplayed by many of its advocates. Anecdotally, I have seen several marijuana-using friends go down the tubes. One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him (because he was worried everyone might be a spy), and several others became extremely unpleasant and irritable when they weren't high on the drug. This is perhaps the minority case and most people can partake relatively safely, but I definitely don't see it as a completely harmless substance.

chris37879 5y ago
Yup, I still smoke regularly, but I have noticed that if I smoke a lot (and I do mean a lot), I start having paranoia when I'm not high, which is odd cause I don't have it while high. Once that happened to me and I realized the connection, I've scaled my smoking back a lot and it doesn't happen. My brother, on the other hand, smokes way too much, even when I was living in a legal state smoking a lot, he smokes more than I did, and you're spot on, when he doesn't have any weed, he is a hateful, mean, angry person, I've begged him to stop smoking so much, but of course he won't listen to me.
pmoriarty 5y ago
"One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him" I would bet you anything that this person was using a high-potency grade of cannabis and/or smoking a lot of it. If they just used a little bit of a low-potency strain it's unlikely they would have suffered from paranoia. "several others became extremely unpleasant and irritable when they weren't high on the drug" So, wait, these people became nicer to be around while they were smoking and this is supposed to be a bad thing?
- alisonatwork 5y ago
  Well, they used to be nicer before they started smoking a lot. Then they developed a newer, more irritable personality, which only lifted when they were high. In my experience the same sort of thing can happen with alcoholics.

dantheman 5y ago

So your father is for imprisoning people, gang violence, and the overall cartel drug system, because a few people will develop schizophrenia -- The question isn't marijuana or no marijuana, it's marijuana vs all the problems with prohibition. Also, there's a fundamental right to self medicate.