4 ms·

Disgraced Home Secretary, Priti Patel* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41853561.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41853561.amp

chrisseaton 5y ago
No she's the current Home Secretary. You could argue that she's the 'disgraced' Secretary of State for International Development if you wanted to.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zimpenfish 5y ago
  > No she's the current Home Secretary. She can still be disgraced, though, no? Not least because she's been pretty disgraceful as Home Secretary.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Disgraced X means they were X but have fallen from that position. You can’t be a disgraced X if you’re still an X.
    - zimpenfish 5y ago
      Using the OUP definition via Google, "having fallen from favour or a position of power or honour; discredited." You are claiming that "fallen from a position of power" is the only valid meaning but "fallen from a position of favour" or "discredited" are also valid for Priti Patel. See also, e.g., Collins, Cambridge https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/disgraced https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/disgrac... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/disgraced https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/disgrace... Perfect example from the second link: "Many thought the disgraced president needed to resign." [edit: added pertinent example]
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        She hasn't fallen from her current position of favour - she still has the PM's favour - and she hasn't been discredited - she still has her credentials as Home Secretary. I'm sure she doesn't have your favour, but you could find someone who doesn't like any politician, but we don't call them discredited because some angry person doesn't like them any more - that's just not what the phrase means. > Perfect example from the second link: "Many thought the disgraced president needed to resign." In that example they're doing what you're doing and arguing that you think she should be discredited, or you'd discredit her if you were the PM, not that they actually are discredited - because clearly neither were.
        zimpenfish 5y ago
        > she still has the PM's favour Which, as you know, is not the only kind of favour that exists, especially in a political context. > and she hasn't been discredited - she still has her credentials Again, you're taking a very limited and specific meaning of the word to bolster your position - you can easily be discredited with the wider audience and still be in your position (cf Boris Johnson for a prime example.) > you could find someone who doesn't like any politician, but we don't call them discredited because some angry person doesn't like them any more No, we would not. But if many angry persons disliked them because they continually displayed verifiable traits like lying, cheating, corruption, etc., we could perfectly well call them "discredited" or "disgraced", yes.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        Many angry people dislike any politician. And of course we all know the real reason why Priti Patel rubs so many people up the wrong way... she's a non-white daughter of immigrants.
        pydry 5y ago
        Funny you should say that. I have a friend in the UK army and his army colleagues are some of the most racist people you'll ever meet. The army is seemingly a hotbed of nick griffin/farage supporters. They're fans of priti patel too. The British racist far right really like her immigration policies if nothing else.

chrisseaton 5y ago

No she's the current Home Secretary. You could argue that she's the 'disgraced' Secretary of State for International Development if you wanted to.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zimpenfish 5y ago
> No she's the current Home Secretary. She can still be disgraced, though, no? Not least because she's been pretty disgraceful as Home Secretary.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Disgraced X means they were X but have fallen from that position. You can’t be a disgraced X if you’re still an X.
  - zimpenfish 5y ago
    Using the OUP definition via Google, "having fallen from favour or a position of power or honour; discredited." You are claiming that "fallen from a position of power" is the only valid meaning but "fallen from a position of favour" or "discredited" are also valid for Priti Patel. See also, e.g., Collins, Cambridge https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/disgraced https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/disgrac... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/disgraced https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/disgrace... Perfect example from the second link: "Many thought the disgraced president needed to resign." [edit: added pertinent example]
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      She hasn't fallen from her current position of favour - she still has the PM's favour - and she hasn't been discredited - she still has her credentials as Home Secretary. I'm sure she doesn't have your favour, but you could find someone who doesn't like any politician, but we don't call them discredited because some angry person doesn't like them any more - that's just not what the phrase means. > Perfect example from the second link: "Many thought the disgraced president needed to resign." In that example they're doing what you're doing and arguing that you think she should be discredited, or you'd discredit her if you were the PM, not that they actually are discredited - because clearly neither were.
      - zimpenfish 5y ago
        > she still has the PM's favour Which, as you know, is not the only kind of favour that exists, especially in a political context. > and she hasn't been discredited - she still has her credentials Again, you're taking a very limited and specific meaning of the word to bolster your position - you can easily be discredited with the wider audience and still be in your position (cf Boris Johnson for a prime example.) > you could find someone who doesn't like any politician, but we don't call them discredited because some angry person doesn't like them any more No, we would not. But if many angry persons disliked them because they continually displayed verifiable traits like lying, cheating, corruption, etc., we could perfectly well call them "discredited" or "disgraced", yes.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        Many angry people dislike any politician. And of course we all know the real reason why Priti Patel rubs so many people up the wrong way... she's a non-white daughter of immigrants.
        pydry 5y ago
        Funny you should say that. I have a friend in the UK army and his army colleagues are some of the most racist people you'll ever meet. The army is seemingly a hotbed of nick griffin/farage supporters. They're fans of priti patel too. The British racist far right really like her immigration policies if nothing else.